While individual reality is highly subjective, not every reality is
individual. For example, if one does not file the tax forms before midnight
tonight there will be consequences. This is a social reality, with only
relatively limited individual interpretation allowed. Culture also
constrains the degree of subjectivity. On the average, in most cases women's
hair tends to be longer than men's. This is a cultural reality with greater
flexibility in some cultures and virtually none in others. Old Icelanders,
for example, did not allow men to wear low-cut shirts. The penalty was
outlawry. Another cultural reality not subject to individual interpretation.

The interesting aspect of the recent discussion we have had is precisely the
degree of differences that were shared, and the possible expansion of one's
own vision that this could assist. You are right the "I'm right/you're
wrong" approach is not useful. On the other hand, I never got the impression
that this was the message. I read much pain, discomfort, confusion and
attempts to understand by every contributor (perhaps that is truly
subjective). In my own writing I attempted to state my thesis and support it
in a concise as I could with knowledge, experience and research. Did I
change any minds? I would be surprised. But that was not my goal, my concern
was to state my beliefs clearly and coherently and thereby give someone else
an opportunity to understand a position that they may not share. If someone
can say, I don't agree, but I understand what you are saying-that is good
enough. Was I swayed by opposing argument of others? No, but I hope that I
saw the genuine statement of their concerns and grew to respect the work
that they put into formulating these concerns.

The reality of innocent lives lost is not subjective, the reality of
artifacts lost is not subjective, the reality of manuscripts burned is not
subjective-they are not among us anymore and nothing can change that. Our
individual response to these realities may be quite subjective, but within
the affected cultures, in my opinion, the responses are rather predictable.
I only hope that it was all worth it to the instigators of these realities
and to those who chose to follow such a lead.

-----Original Message-----
From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
Of Indigo Nights
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 2:49 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [Iraq looting - blaming the troops - CNN article]

For me the interesting thing that comes of this is the
differences in realities.  Paradigms are fixed and
appear unable to be shifted.  Confirms what I have
long suspected:  Reality is purely a subjective thing.

You can tell who bought into the boogie monster under
the bed thing and who has concerns that the reasons
for this war aren't as they say.

In any event, "I'm right/your wrong" isn't going to
solve this.

I understand from other discussions that some of the
loot (as yet undetailed to me) is being brought back
to various places from which it was taken.  The word
is that a Muslim cleric(s) indicated a woman could not
sleep with a husband who had looted.

Love can make for many wonderous things, even the
return of stolen property.

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/news/live/body.asp?ID=iraq\news\booty

A few of the more recent articles:

http://www.hipakistan.com/en/detail.php?newsId=en22556&F_catID=&f_type=sourc
e

http://www.fremontneb.com/articles/2003/04/15/news/news92.txt


--- Chris Kolakowski <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> This interesting back-and-forth brings to mind this
> unfortunately very
> true quote from William T. Sherman - "War is cruelty
> and you cannot
> refine it."
>
> CLK
>


=====
Indigo Nights
[log in to unmask]

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