What does any of this have to do with museums?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sasha Carrera" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] creationism


> This may seem an odd question, but are there any other faiths that take 
> the
> Genesis version of how the world was created literally? You hear about it
> being a purely Christian fundamentalist thing, I'm wondering if there are
> Jewish or even Muslim groups that believe in Creationism too.
> Just wondering,
> Sasha
>
>
> On 8/3/05 12:19 PM, "Mark Janzen" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Rebecca,
>>
>> Yes, the "they" in this case are the pushers of Christian philosophy as
>> science, largely embodied by the Discovery Institute. Sorry if that was 
>> not
>> clear. I do indeed consider the movement rather sinister, but that is
>> probably the result of my personal feelings on science and my love of my
>> rights as an American.
>>
>> 1. Actually the proof is in the testing that has been done over the past
>> 125 years. That is what people do not understand about the topic, and the
>> central reason ID is not a competitor with evolution. No one is asking
>> anyone to take science on "faith". Science presents the evidence, and
>> allows it to speak for itself. If you do not think the evidence is
>> sufficient, and you prefer to assume intelligent design, then so be it.
>> Just do not call it science.
>>
>> 2. ID/creationism can not be disproved...it is faith. As a matter of 
>> fact,
>> no one is trying to disprove it. It is the other way around. Evolution is
>> definitely still "standing", as nothing has yet presented a substantive
>> alternative.
>>
>> 3. Then you need to start laughing. That is exactly what ID says, but not
>> is so few words. They believe their point of view is true because their
>> book says so. End of discussion(from their end anyway).
>>
>> You are absolutely correct. Both science and religion are integral parts 
>> of
>> human society and philosophy. We need both. However, what we also need 
>> are
>> people who understand both, and where the dividing lines lie between 
>> them.
>> I do indeed hold both scientific and religious leaders in high esteem, 
>> but
>> leading and making positive contribution is far different from being the
>> one who shouts the loudest in a conversation.
>>
>> Making a place for our children to be exposed to both is what we were 
>> just
>> talking about, and nothing is wrong with it at all. The point is that it
>> needs to be done in the right place, and the science/biology classroom is
>> not the place for both. The unscarred adults who have been exposed to 
>> both
>> theories were exposed in the proper places, i.e. biology class and 
>> church.
>> The children who may be subjected to the travesty suggested by ID
>> proponents will definitely scar our children, and produce an educational
>> blight that will be very difficult to eradicate once the mistake is made.
>>
>> Indeed. We should certainly not allow the current confusion over the 
>> nature
>> of the topic to enter into our interpretations and color the information 
>> we
>> present to the public, whether they think it should be there or not.
>>
>> Mark Janzen
>> Registrar/Collections Manager
>> Edwin A. Ulrich Museum of Art
>> Martin H. Bush Outdoor Sculpture Collection
>> Wichita State University
>> (316)978-5850
>>
>>
>>
>>              Rebecca
>>              Fitzgerald
>>              <rafitzgerald@COM 
>> To
>>              CAST.NET>                 [log in to unmask]
>>              Sent by: Museum 
>> cc
>>              discussion list
>>              <[log in to unmask] 
>> Subject
>>              SE.LSOFT.COM>             Re: A washingtonpost.com article
>>                                        from: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>              08/03/2005 01:54
>>              PM
>>
>>
>>              Please respond to
>>              Museum discussion
>>                    list
>>              <[log in to unmask]
>>                SE.LSOFT.COM>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I like to remind people that this controversy is not about evolution or
>>> even science. It is about telling other people what they should believe,
>>> and what is right and wrong.
>>
>> And this of course is the crux of most of the problems of the world. In
>> every debate there are those on each side who feel that they're having 
>> the
>> opposite view forced on them.
>>
>> By the way, who are "they?" In this case is "they" an organized group
>> pushing ID, or the millions of people who believe that that God created 
>> the
>> universe and every thing in it, whether in a week, or by initiating that
>> moment of creation - what some folks call the "big bang." Or is "they" 
>> some
>> other sinister group?
>>
>> Science and religion necessarily intersect in this discussion, since both
>> consider our origin as part of their "turf." So, after many years of
>> studying this debate, and reading all there is on the subject, I'm forced
>> to
>> ask:
>> 1. Where's the proof? If science cannot produce the proof, then they're
>> asking me to take it on faith. Hmmm...that's exactly what religion asks
>> too.
>> 2. If the authority is an evolution theory that's still standing, then 
>> I'd
>> have to say that no one has disproved creationism/ID yet either.
>> 3. If either side says, "Because I'm the "illustrious grand poobah" and I
>> said so, well then, I'd have to laugh at their arrogance.
>>
>> We hold both our scientists and our religious leaders in high esteem. Our
>> world is much richer for both but they both have had their dark days.
>> Frankly, we NEED both religion and science in our world today.
>>
>> What is wrong with teaching both theories? Why not make a place in our
>> schools for students to be exposed to both? Virtually every adult over 
>> the
>> age of 45 WAS exposed to both theories - and it doesn't seem that those
>> generations were terribly scarred by the experience.
>>
>> Bringing this back to practical museum work - it's so easy to influence
>> folks through museum exhibits and programming. I'm always humbled by the
>> vast educational influence that we wield. It is so important that we "get
>> it
>> right" and avoid bending our exhibits and interpretation to the current
>> politically correct viewpoint.
>>
>> Becky Fitzgerald
>> Susquehanna Museum
>>
>> =========================================================
>> Important Subscriber Information:
>>
>> The Museum-L FAQ file is located at
>> http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed
>> information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail
>> message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should
>> read "help" (without the quotes).
>>
>> If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to
>> [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read 
>> "Signoff
>> Museum-L" (without the quotes).
>>
>> =========================================================
>> Important Subscriber Information:
>>
>> The Museum-L FAQ file is located at 
>> http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/
>> . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by 
>> sending a
>> one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the
>> message should read "help" (without the quotes).
>>
>> If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to
>> [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read 
>> "Signoff
>> Museum-L" (without the quotes).
>
> =========================================================
> Important Subscriber Information:
>
> The Museum-L FAQ file is located at 
> http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed 
> information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail 
> message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should 
> read "help" (without the quotes).
>
> If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to 
> [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read 
> "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).
> 

=========================================================
Important Subscriber Information:

The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes).

If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).