What does any of this have to do with museums? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sasha Carrera" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] creationism > This may seem an odd question, but are there any other faiths that take > the > Genesis version of how the world was created literally? You hear about it > being a purely Christian fundamentalist thing, I'm wondering if there are > Jewish or even Muslim groups that believe in Creationism too. > Just wondering, > Sasha > > > On 8/3/05 12:19 PM, "Mark Janzen" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> Rebecca, >> >> Yes, the "they" in this case are the pushers of Christian philosophy as >> science, largely embodied by the Discovery Institute. Sorry if that was >> not >> clear. I do indeed consider the movement rather sinister, but that is >> probably the result of my personal feelings on science and my love of my >> rights as an American. >> >> 1. Actually the proof is in the testing that has been done over the past >> 125 years. That is what people do not understand about the topic, and the >> central reason ID is not a competitor with evolution. No one is asking >> anyone to take science on "faith". Science presents the evidence, and >> allows it to speak for itself. If you do not think the evidence is >> sufficient, and you prefer to assume intelligent design, then so be it. >> Just do not call it science. >> >> 2. ID/creationism can not be disproved...it is faith. As a matter of >> fact, >> no one is trying to disprove it. It is the other way around. Evolution is >> definitely still "standing", as nothing has yet presented a substantive >> alternative. >> >> 3. Then you need to start laughing. That is exactly what ID says, but not >> is so few words. They believe their point of view is true because their >> book says so. End of discussion(from their end anyway). >> >> You are absolutely correct. Both science and religion are integral parts >> of >> human society and philosophy. We need both. However, what we also need >> are >> people who understand both, and where the dividing lines lie between >> them. >> I do indeed hold both scientific and religious leaders in high esteem, >> but >> leading and making positive contribution is far different from being the >> one who shouts the loudest in a conversation. >> >> Making a place for our children to be exposed to both is what we were >> just >> talking about, and nothing is wrong with it at all. The point is that it >> needs to be done in the right place, and the science/biology classroom is >> not the place for both. The unscarred adults who have been exposed to >> both >> theories were exposed in the proper places, i.e. biology class and >> church. >> The children who may be subjected to the travesty suggested by ID >> proponents will definitely scar our children, and produce an educational >> blight that will be very difficult to eradicate once the mistake is made. >> >> Indeed. We should certainly not allow the current confusion over the >> nature >> of the topic to enter into our interpretations and color the information >> we >> present to the public, whether they think it should be there or not. >> >> Mark Janzen >> Registrar/Collections Manager >> Edwin A. Ulrich Museum of Art >> Martin H. Bush Outdoor Sculpture Collection >> Wichita State University >> (316)978-5850 >> >> >> >> Rebecca >> Fitzgerald >> <rafitzgerald@COM >> To >> CAST.NET> [log in to unmask] >> Sent by: Museum >> cc >> discussion list >> <[log in to unmask] >> Subject >> SE.LSOFT.COM> Re: A washingtonpost.com article >> from: [log in to unmask] >> >> 08/03/2005 01:54 >> PM >> >> >> Please respond to >> Museum discussion >> list >> <[log in to unmask] >> SE.LSOFT.COM> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> I like to remind people that this controversy is not about evolution or >>> even science. It is about telling other people what they should believe, >>> and what is right and wrong. >> >> And this of course is the crux of most of the problems of the world. In >> every debate there are those on each side who feel that they're having >> the >> opposite view forced on them. >> >> By the way, who are "they?" In this case is "they" an organized group >> pushing ID, or the millions of people who believe that that God created >> the >> universe and every thing in it, whether in a week, or by initiating that >> moment of creation - what some folks call the "big bang." Or is "they" >> some >> other sinister group? >> >> Science and religion necessarily intersect in this discussion, since both >> consider our origin as part of their "turf." So, after many years of >> studying this debate, and reading all there is on the subject, I'm forced >> to >> ask: >> 1. Where's the proof? If science cannot produce the proof, then they're >> asking me to take it on faith. Hmmm...that's exactly what religion asks >> too. >> 2. If the authority is an evolution theory that's still standing, then >> I'd >> have to say that no one has disproved creationism/ID yet either. >> 3. If either side says, "Because I'm the "illustrious grand poobah" and I >> said so, well then, I'd have to laugh at their arrogance. >> >> We hold both our scientists and our religious leaders in high esteem. Our >> world is much richer for both but they both have had their dark days. >> Frankly, we NEED both religion and science in our world today. >> >> What is wrong with teaching both theories? Why not make a place in our >> schools for students to be exposed to both? Virtually every adult over >> the >> age of 45 WAS exposed to both theories - and it doesn't seem that those >> generations were terribly scarred by the experience. >> >> Bringing this back to practical museum work - it's so easy to influence >> folks through museum exhibits and programming. I'm always humbled by the >> vast educational influence that we wield. It is so important that we "get >> it >> right" and avoid bending our exhibits and interpretation to the current >> politically correct viewpoint. >> >> Becky Fitzgerald >> Susquehanna Museum >> >> ========================================================= >> Important Subscriber Information: >> >> The Museum-L FAQ file is located at >> http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed >> information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail >> message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should >> read "help" (without the quotes). >> >> If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to >> [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read >> "Signoff >> Museum-L" (without the quotes). >> >> ========================================================= >> Important Subscriber Information: >> >> The Museum-L FAQ file is located at >> http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ >> . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by >> sending a >> one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the >> message should read "help" (without the quotes). >> >> If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to >> [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read >> "Signoff >> Museum-L" (without the quotes). > > ========================================================= > Important Subscriber Information: > > The Museum-L FAQ file is located at > http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed > information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail > message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should > read "help" (without the quotes). > > If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to > [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read > "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes). > ========================================================= Important Subscriber Information: The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes). If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).