Hi Isabella,
With regards to "liable; seriously?" : yes, actually! You say below that
you had no intention of asking the lady concerned directly, however your
original posting clearly stated that ".. if you all can help ease my
mind and tell me she did actually have permission to wear the dresses" ,
which read to me as a direct appeal to listserv members to substantiate
a specific question concerning a named individual? And as you go on to
say
"Basically, it would be impossible to discern the truth even if she was
being truthful" so IF the individual concerned found out about this
discussion and took exception to it, then it would not be a pretty
picture!
In respect of your conclusion that "people are more concerned about
personal reputations than the possibility of damaged artifacts?" I would
humbly suggest that both are important but I of course agree with you
that no one responsible for the custody of artefacts should obscure or
conceal "wrong doings" to protect their own reputation: this is basic
ethics!
Here's another angle : for those of you who work for museums/heritage
sites large enough to have your own intranets, I am sure you have all
had to sign up to protocols that expressly forbid you to discuss the
actions of named individuals in this way on your internal e-mail
networks: is the internet so very different?
Of course, I don't endorse litigation culture any more than you do and I
do believe in the freedom of speech :-) ! I also fully appreciate that
you question arose out of genuine interest and whether intentionally or
not your posting has sparked one of the most interesting debates on this
listserv I have seen in recent months: and I sincerely thank you for
that!
***
For those posters who have used the words "libel and slander", these
terms are often confused and here is a neat little summary of what they
both mean and how they interrelate. I have included a link to the site I
am quoting from, which is an American one, so presumably consistent with
US law.
"LIBEL AND SLANDER occur when a person or entity communicates false
information that damages the reputation of another person or entity.
Slander occurs when the false and defamatory communication is spoken and
heard. Libel occurs when the false and defamatory communication is
written and seen. The laws governing libel and slander, which are
collectively known as DEFAMATION
<http://www.enotes.com/wests-law-encyclopedia/defamation> , are
identical."
http://www.enotes.com/everyday-law-encyclopedia/libel-and-slander
Of course, these laws were framed way before the internet was even
dreamed of! Now, is communication via the internet "spoken and heard" or
"written and seen" or both? Does it matter as both libel and slander
count as defamation? Another discussion for another day!
Thanks again to Isabella for initiating this fascinating discussion.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of . .
Sent: 25 February 2011 12:25
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] Concerning Blog Post
In regards to the liable; seriously? The lady herself said she "snuck
out" the dresses. I'm only asking whether anyone can confirm or deny
this. As for asking her directly, no, I have not and with a very good
reason: if this is nothing more than a creative writing exercise and
those are reproductions of an 1890's dress and an early 1900's (out of
wool, not cotton, by my eye but the pictures are really too blurry to
tell) then she may continue her writing exercise with the answer; she
may also deny it even if the original story is true. Basically, it
would be impossible to discern the truth even if she was being truthful.
I'm actually sort of shocked that anyone would be more horrified that I
"dared" to post this to a listserve for museum professionals than the
idea of someone sneaking artifacts out of a museum. I guess people are
more concerned about personal reputations than the possibility of
damaged artifacts?
-Isabella
_____
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 06:09:51 -0600
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Concerning Blog Post
To: [log in to unmask]
I agree that the dresses in question are most likely reproductions- or
at worst re-furbished "vintage dresses".
I also agree with the point about being careful of accusations made on
the listserv. Isabella- did you ask the blogger whether this was a true
story or a creative writing exercise? There is a link that says, "ask
me anything"...
I remember an instance not too long ago where more serious accusations
were made on the listserv about an unnamed museum on the east coast
(which was readily identifiable with a simple Google search).
I think it bears reminding everyone on *any* public forum that what you
post here is actually public. Don't say (write) anything that you
wouldn't want printed in the paper or on the evening news. (I would, by
the way, give the same caution to the blogger who blogs- even in a
creative writing format- about engaging in illegal activities.)
Just my $0.02.
-Cass
On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 10:15 PM, . . <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hello!
I'm a long time lurker to the list. This afternoon, I was looking up
information on vintage dresses and gowns when I came across this
blogger's post:
http://thedarlingsfables.tumblr.com/post/3489854698/a-pair-of-kindred-sp
irits For those that don't like links, it says the following:
My friend Lesley and I used to work at a museum and one day after work
we snuck some brilliant dresses off some mannequins and some other props
and came up with these charming photos. I hope they bring you as much
satisfaction and longing for summer as they do me.
The post is accompanied by an array of photos of the two ladies in what
are clearly late 19th century/early 20th century gowns doing a variety
of seemingly innocent activities; such as cloud watching in the grass or
kneeling outside in the grass. However, those activities are extremely
damaging to antique cotton and silk gowns not to mention any insects or
chemicals they may have gotten on them thanks to lawn care.
I would love to believe that she was joking and did have permission
-much in the same vain as I say when I tell people I'm going to "kidnap"
my nephew- but I can't imagine a curator allowing someone to lay down
outside in the grass in an antique dress that is part of the museum's
collection.
So, if you all can help ease my mind and tell me she did actually have
permission to wear the dresses, that would be awesome. Does anyone even
recognize the gowns? I believe the lady lives in Canada but I'm unsure
if the museum she "borrowed" these dresses from is there. Does anyone
know if she had permission or not? Is the museum even aware of what
took place?
If she didn't have permission, how did she manage to get the artifacts
out of the museum without anyone raising an eyebrow? I really think
this might be a larger discussion on museum security and procedures,
particularly for trusted individuals in the museum.
I really hope someone recognizes the gowns and can help tell me yea or
nay on whether or not this lady had permission to have those gowns.
Thank you,
Isabella
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