OK, enough is enough.  I have kept my mouth shut for long enough.

 

People, this is a museum discussion list.  Neither of the last two posts
with this title have ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with museums.

 

PLEASE, keep your mad rantings to yourself unless you have something
constructive to say about museums or related.

 

The joy of this list is that anyone can sign up and post museum related
topics and get answers and comment.  The bane of this list is that
idiots can sign up and post NON-MUSEUM related topics and also get
UNENDING answers and comment.

 

Oh, and if you are going to agree with or flame me, please do it off
list so that we do not subject everyone to another unending discussion
of who should or should not be on this list or what should or should not
be posted.

 

ENOUGH!!!!!!!!

 

________________________________

From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Nader Rastegar
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 9:01 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Well, I've seen everything else on this list, so why not
this?

 

Is this posting allowed to go on unopposed?  Because if it is, I have
very forceful response to it.  This is simply ANOTHER Evidence of Hate
Talk and packed with LIES and DECEIT - just like the UNJUST War it
supports.

 

Terror is what has been unleashed on 7 million Palestinians for the past
50 years.  Terror is what has been unleashed in the Middle East by our
Invasion and Occupation of a Sovereign Nation.

 

Who is this creep Tim Bottoms?  A Follower of Pat Robertson or Benjamin
Netanyahu?

 

Nader Rastegar

Tim Bottoms <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

	Why We Must Win This War!

		
		 
		"With what recently happened in London, consider this,
when you have the time to really read it" -----  Major General Vernon
Chong, USAF, retired. 

		 

	
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++
		 
		"This WAR is for REAL 
		 
		To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through
it. Our nation is presently facing the most serious threat to its very
existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine
(which includes WWII). 
		 
		The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact
there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and
even fewer who realize what losing really means. 
		 
		First, let's examine a few basics: 
		 
		1. When did the threat to us start? 
		 
		Many will say September 11th, 2001. The answer as far as
the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September
2001, with the following attacks on us: 
		 
		 Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;  Beirut, Lebanon Embassy
1983;  Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;  Lockerbie, Scotland
Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;  First New York World Trade Center
attack 1993;  Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex
1996;  Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;  Dares Salaam, Tanzania US
Embassy 1998;  Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;  New York World Trade Center
2001;  Pentagon 2001. 
		 
		(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there
were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide). 
		 
		2. Why were we attacked? 
		 
		Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The
attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter,
Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the
Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocation's by any of the
presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter. 
		 
		3. Who were the attackers? 
		 
		In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by
Muslims. 
		 
		4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%. 
		 
		5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful? 
		 
		Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no
doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was
peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also
Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the
administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million
Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000
Polish priests). (see http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm). 
		 
		Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed
by the Nazis, as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them,
and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities.
Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he ha! d no
hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the
Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian or any others. 
		 
		Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on
the US, but kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish,
French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful
Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how
many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from
the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing
-- by their own pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I don't
blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up
or die? 
		 
		6. So who are we at war with? 
		 
		There is no way we can honestly respond that it is
anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically
correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There
is no wa! y to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you
are fighting. 
		 
		So with that background, now to the two major questions:

		 
		1. Can we lose this war? 
		 
		2. What does losing really mean? 
		 
		If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two
pivotal questions. 
		 
		We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it
may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do
not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean? 
		 
		It would appear that a great many of us think that
losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and
going on about our business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the
truth as one can get. What losing really means is: 
		 
		We would no longer be the premier country in the world.
The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase.
Remember, they want us dea! d, not just quiet. If they had just wanted
us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks
against us, over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist
to attack us, until we were neutered and submissive to them. 
		 
		We would of course have no future support from other
nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see,
we are impotent and cannot help them. 
		 
		They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at
a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain
hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to
withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim
terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops.
Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished. 
		 
		The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France
is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, !
they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists
without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is
already 20% Muslim and fading fast! 
		 
		If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and
way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade
or deal with us, if they were threatened by the Muslims. 
		 
		If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else? 
		 
		The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and
therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better
know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost. 
		 
		Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of
losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite
and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is
going to take that 100% effort to win. 
		 
		So, how can we lose the war? 
		 
		Agai! n, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by
"imploding." That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the
enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full support
to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose.
If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win! 
		 
		Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't
comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation. 
		 
		President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of
Transportation. 
		 
		Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by
Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to
allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing
seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give
up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better
be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most
certainly lose al! l of them permanently. 
		 
		And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up
plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after
the victory and in fact added many more since then. 
		 
		Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before
him? 
		 
		No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all
of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this
conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words
apply to war. Get them out of your head. 
		 
		Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war
and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like
to see us lose.. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are
disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means.
Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are
divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage
to our c! ause. 
		 
		Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the
politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war,
perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. 
		 
		We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment
of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military
police. 
		 
		These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago
were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands,
cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just
for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein. 
		 
		And just a few years ago these same type prisoners
chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They
are also the same type enemy fighters, who recently were burning
Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of
Iraq. 
		 
		And still more recently, the same type enemy that was
and is providing videos to all news s! ources internationally, of the
beheading of American prisoners they held. 
		 
		Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who
for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the
"humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging
their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but
"humiliating" them. 
		 
		Can this be for real? 
		 
		The politicians and pundits have even talked of
impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. 
		 
		If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension
and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the
life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing
this war, nothing can. 
		 
		To bring our country to a virtual political standstill
over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as
Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. 
		 
		Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this
internal strife. 
		 
		Again I say, this does not mean that some of our
politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are
absolutely oblivious to the magnitude, of the situation we are in and
into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years. 
		 
		Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill
all infidels! That translates into all non-Muslims -- not just in the
United States, but throughout the world. 
		 
		We are the last bastion of defense. 
		 
		We have been criticized for many years as being
'arrogant.' That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are
arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart,
that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and
that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in
the world! 
		 We can't! 
		 
		If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it
will not survive, and no other free country in the World will survive if
we are defeated. 
		 
		And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the
world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of
religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone
everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been
productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world. 
		 
		This has been a long way of saying that we must be
united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the
self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders
will allow history books to be written or read. 
		 
		If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on
how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will
continue to increase the Muslim population of France and ! continue to
encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The
French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not
be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any
united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar? 
		 
		Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from
them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms
away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece. 
		 
		And they are giving those freedoms away to those who
have shown, worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to
you or even to themselves, once they are in power. 
		 
		They have universally shown that when they have taken
over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the
few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the
politically correct, about the "peaceful Muslims"? 
		 
		I close on a hopeful note, by repeati! ng what I said
above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now
after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on
the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It
is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.

		 
		After reading the above, we all must do this not only
for ourselves, but our children, our grandchildren, our country and the
world. 
		 
		Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal
and that includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free
world! 
		 
		Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to
read it. Our "leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too. 
		 
		There are those that find fault with our country, but it
is obvious to anyone who truly thinks through this, that we must UNITE!"

		 
		....................
		Comment: I thank General Chong for forwarding this most
appropriate and timely writing. I certainly concur with the writer on
the necessity for standing up and uniting as peace-loving American. This
country was founded by our forbears fleeing religious persecution. I do
not care what religion anyone in this country chooses to practice as
long as it does not advocate the overthrow of our government or the
slaughter of people who do not choose to practice a religion that
opposes the spread of democracy because of the choice it gives people to
live in freedom. The fastest road to peace is to ensure a free world.
"Speak softly and carry a BIG stick" 

		 

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