I'd like people to think outside of their own experiences and really listen
to others. Just because it's not YOUR experience, doesn't mean that someone
else's experience is invalid. And think about your own experience. When was
the last time that you were on the job hunt? 5-10-15+ years ago? Things
have probably changed a lot in that time, even if it has been a few years.

First on jobs for teens - here's a good article that sums up why many teens
aren't getting summer jobs. Shorter summer breaks combined with heavy
course loads mean that many teens are going to school over the summer-
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/06/disappearance-of-the-summer-job/529824/

Here's another article that mentions that teens have a hard time finding a
summer job because places want experience and if you have no experience
then you can't get a job. -
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/CareerManagement/story?id=5174189&page=1

Your area might be different and your experience might be different. But
there are studies out there that show fewer teens are getting summer jobs
and valid reasons why that aren't because they are lazy. Don't assume all
teens are the same.

As for paying for groceries and what not - they're living at home or taking
out student loans. See articles about crushing student loan debt and
boomerang kids.

As for hundreds of jobs - look at the listing that the University of
Delaware puts out every week or every other week. Leicester University also
puts out a listing of jobs. Each has at least 50 jobs on it. Then look at
state and local job listings, AAM, ALHFAM, ASTC, and other professional
organizations that list jobs. Places like Indeed.com and LinkedIn also post
jobs. People often just aren't applying for museum jobs. When I was
actively looking for museum jobs, I easily sent out at least 2-3
applications per week for various positions. If you are ambitious, you can
easily send out a resume a day, especially if you are going for summer
positions and seasonal work. In the non-museum world, the average time to
find a job these days is 3-6 months. If you're collecting unemployment, the
government requires you to send out at least 2 applications a week. That's
24-48 applications right there over a 3-6 month period if you just do the
minimum.

None of what I'm saying is about "fair". It's about reality. And seriously,
just because you flipped burgers and did crap summer jobs for no money
doesn't mean we need to perpetuate the system for the next generation.
There are lots of ways to learn responsibility, punctuality, and other job
skills than traditional summer jobs. Kids these days are also doing loads
of volunteer work, running student organizations, and juggling crazy
schedules. Heck, students who just survived a school shooting are holding
press conferences and organizing a nation-wide march. I'm sure many of them
haven't had summer jobs but are doing just fine.

Deb Fuller

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 10:05 AM, Elizabeth Walton <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> I think the whole point of this thread is to sort out the special needs of
> museums over typical advice on the internet. For instance we cannot have
> one simple resume, as others have pointed out government applications are
> completely different from others due to scanning and keywords. With
> government pay scales you have to include everything because ultimately
> your experience and education also determines your pay rate. Of course the
> downside to that is that it also declares your age and that you are more
> expensive when older..
>
> The jobs for teens and college students are out there, my niece and nephew
> are 17 and 20 and have never had a problem finding part time work, they do
> restaurant work during the school year and lifeguard in the summer, they
> make over $10 an hour. In college I worked internships and waited tables a
> couple nights a week. Making it work is a sign of maturity and
> professionalism IMO. Personally, I would rather hire someone who cashiered,
> flipped burgers, or waited tables than someone who never had a job or had
> to earn their own money. Learning to be professional, to show up on time,
> to deal with co workers and bosses and customers and even skills like how
> to use a copier can be more important than anything learned in a classroom.
>
> If $7 an hour does not pay for groceries... how do you get the groceries
> and rent paid with nothing? How can they be offered a job with reasonable
> pay if they are not applying for anything and have no experience in the
> first place? You start low and move up, that is how someone starts by
> bagging groceries and ends up a well paid professional. Wanting to skip to
> the well paid fun part is pretty unfair to the people who had to work and
> earn their way because they did not have parents with the resources to pay
> for everything for them. And I think we need to be careful not to punish
> people who had to work and could not afford to travel and live without pay
> for months to get the best internships.
>
> As far as a plain text resume, that is not a special format you have to
> spend any time on, you can save the resume as text and attach it to the
> application in a matter of seconds. As most applications are submitted
> digitally it is easy to attach a nicely formatted pdf and a plain text
> format attachment. If an applications asked for this I would make sure to
> do it, as following instructions is the first test for every single
> application IMO.
>
> Where are these hundreds of positions people are applying to? Are they
> applying to every position posted in every museum even if they are not
> qualified or even interested? That sounds like an enormous waste of time
> for everyone involved and generally a bad idea.
>
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:23 AM, Deb Fuller <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:35 AM, Michelle Zupan <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 7) If the applicant has never actually held a paying job (which is
>>> generally a deal breaker for me) there ought to be a statement as to WHY.
>>> (read)
>>>
>>
>> Defending students who haven't had paying jobs - the hard truth is that
>> in many places, there aren't any jobs for high school and college students.
>> Many of us earned money in the summer by working retail, food service,
>> paper routes, mowing lawns, and other minimum wage jobs. Those jobs are now
>> going to adults who work them year round because they don't have any other
>> job choices. High school kids are also pressured to do "enrichment
>> programs" so many kids are going to academic camps or programs instead of
>> working jobs. Granted, some kids get "jobs" as "counselors in training" but
>> even those positions are limited. Many students have internship
>> requirements that don't pay so they get all the fun and experience of a job
>> without any of the income. During the school year, students often don't
>> have time for jobs or think that minimum wage type jobs will hurt their
>> future employment chances or it's not worth their time to make no money. It
>> really sucks for kids these days because they are damned if they do and
>> damned if they don't. I don't know any student who would pass up a paying
>> job at a reasonable wage if they were offered it. But I also don't blame
>> them for not wanting to slave away flipping burgers for $7/hour because
>> that doesn't even pay for groceries these days, let alone rent and other
>> living expenses.
>>
>> Also again, I ask HR people and anyone with hiring authority who looks at
>> resumes to look at what job seeks are told about what goes into a resume
>> and cover letter. There are MILLIONS of sites out there and just as many
>> opinions. One site will insist that you HAVE to put your education first.
>> Others will say put it last. I will vary depending on the job because
>> outside of the museum field, my museum studies degree counts against me.
>> Older people will tend not to put years with their degrees because they
>> don't want to be passed over because of ageism. (You know this happens.)
>> Museum people tend to have non-traditional career paths so listing jobs in
>> chronological order doesn't always give a clear picture of our experience,
>> especially if we've had a bunch of seasonal positions. People will use
>> skills-based resumes or other formats to highlight their skills and
>> experience the best way. Don't toss those resumes out because they don't
>> fit what you think a resume should be.
>>
>> I've seen articles that advocate for a plain text resume so that it can
>> be easily read and scanned by HR systems. Other articles will talk about
>> how you need a visually appealing resume so that you can catch the eye of
>> the HR manager. Use gerunds or not? Write in present or past-tense? Then
>> look at the resume templates in Word and no wonder people don't seem to
>> know how to write a resume. Too many formats!! UGH!!
>>
>> Remember museum job seekers are applying to HUNDREDS of positions. No
>> joke. We also aren't mind-readers and don't know what your preferred resume
>> format is. Please keep an open mind. Other than deal-breakers like not
>> spellchecking, including pictures, and informal language, resumes should be
>> about conveying the skills, abilities, and experience of a candidate, not
>> about figuring out what format the hiring manager wants.
>>
>> Deb Fuller
>>
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