May I suggest that any who have a sincere need to
discuss this topic consider taking it to another forum
targeted for such discussions. I have one you're
welcome to join, but please understand that sentiments
can run rather testy on this and other topics, and the
target population is--IMHO--quite bright and
politically savvy.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/indecision2000
There is a LOT of mail there as a general rule, often
politically and/or disability based. It's probably a
much better forum for such discussions, though by no
means the only forum.
--- "Wick, Charles Harrison" <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> I agree, it sounds like some people just wanted to
> vent their own political
> agendas.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Les Reker
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: 11/27/2001 1:50 PM
> Subject: Re: CLONING FOR STEM CELLS
>
> My feeling exactly.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Museum discussion list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
> Behalf Of Redcliffe State Historic Site
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 1:20 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: CLONING FOR STEM CELLS
>
>
> What do this have to do with the museum
> community or the purpose of
> this
> listserve?
>
>
>
> Casey Connell
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barb Rexroat
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 12:36 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: CLONING FOR STEM CELLS
>
>
>
> While you can split an atom, you can not
> completely separate
> church and state as long as church goers vote and
> whether you think they
> are
> right, wrong or zealots, they vote for our
> government representatives
> who
> make these difficult decisions. The government
> doesn't always please
> us,
> that's for sure. It's very easy for you to
> criticize the president when
> you
> are not the one trying to please the entire country.
> Furthermore, you will NEVER convince me
> that an embryo is
> not
> one of God's children. If scientists want me to
> believe that because of
> the
> process of evolution man has not always looked the
> way he does today,
> why
> can't I expect scientists to believe that an embryo
> can be a human even
> if
> it doesn't look like we do.
> It's very easy for you to say that
> people who are against
> cloning an embryo are zealots. You don't know me,
> how can you label me?
> I
> would argue that scientists can be zealots for their
> beliefs as well.
> Just keep in mind that just because
> someone disagrees with
> you
> doesn't mean they are "wrong" any more than you are
> "right" or "wrong."
> Religious people are not against science. Last time
> I checked we all
> had a
> right to our opinion and many of us disagree with
> embryo cloning. That
> is
> OK.
> When it's all said and done, if I'm
> wrong, so what; but if
> scientists who disregard God's will are wrong, they
> have one hell of a
> price
> to pay.
> Barb
> At 03:50 PM 11/26/01 -0800, you wrote:
> >. The science community, those interested
> in the right to
> choice,
> >those wanting to see humane scientific
> progress, must restore to
> the
> >science community the right to make scientific
> definitions , and
> not
> >give it to religious fundamentalists. Religions
> defining scientific
> >organisms or defining anything in the sciences,
> through law,
> violates
> >Separation of Church and State.
> > It's based on a religious definition,
> adopted by the "dead
> or
> >alive" pro-death penalty President, that "human
> life (e.g., a baby)
> >begins at conception.
> > A six-cell embryo is hardly a "baby" or
> a "human being."
> It's
> >argued that an embryo is "potentially" a human
> being, therefore
> "human
> >life."
> > The same "potential" could be claimed
> for an egg or sperm
> or a
> >"gleam in the eye." It's literature, or poetry,
> and all fine, but
> it's
> >not science. It makes no more sense to claim
> this for a new embryo,
> than
> >to say a woman's egg is a "baby;" or that a
> sperm is a "human
> life."
> The
> >only difference is that intercourse (or another
> method) fertilized
> the
> >egg, making it an "embryo." This is the
> scientific definition of
> that
> >level of life.
> > That's why science called it an embryo,
> not a baby: Because
> it
> >is still scientifically *different* from a
> sentient, independent
> human
> >being. That is, until the religious right
> browbeat the defining of
> >scientific terms into law along its own biases.
> > Hypocrisy enters the fray when we hear
> Bush and others say,
> >"it's wrong to kill one innocent human being
> even if to save others
> from
> >an evil disease." This, from the people who
> tell us we must accept
> >"collateral killing" of innocent people in the
> greater good of
> stopping
> >evil.
> > The issue to re-fight now is again for
> Separation of
> Church
> and
> >State, of Church and public, of Church and
> Science.
> > It's one thing to resist cloning human
> beings (or placing a
> >cloned embryo into a womb). This is not
> proposed.
> > The whole procedure takes place using
> one's own genetic
> >material, altered and returned, to heal a sick
> organ, spine, etc.,
> and
> >should be a right of "choice" in the control of
> one's own body.
> > The only "ethic" here lies in the power
> struggle of zealots
> >further dictating to the state and to science.
> >Bob Fink
> >
>
>
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> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Barb Rexroat
> Grants and Contracts Administrator
> Comptroller's Office
> Illinois State University
> ph 309-438-5694 fax 309-438-8245
> [log in to unmask]
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
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