no prob.
----- Original Message -----
From: "lorettalorance" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 7:51 PM


> Well, I guess we read different accounts of the story. I think this is to
> the list as I think my account of the Giuliani vs Ofoli story was. The
blib
> about Giuliani's rise in popularity after 9/11 went to you personally
> because it was not related to museum work. But, don't worry, I won't do it
> again.
> Loretta
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:02 PM
>
>
> > Sender:       Museum discussion list <[log in to unmask]>
> > From:         James Schulte <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: 9/11 Censorship?  Statue of falling woman censored
> > To:           [log in to unmask]
> > Precedence: list
> >
> > some of your facts here are wrong, Guiliani did not view this before
> > becoming reactionary, he based his opinions on Roman Catholics who
visited
> > it and saw it as repulsive. He reacted after Cardinal O' Conner condemn
> the
> > work. As for Guiliani, he became the best arts marketer w/o doing a
thing
> > but being a typical politician and feeding off the public. If (/11 had
not
> > occurred he would have faded into obscurity, because he was faltering
big
> > time. Loreetta please post to leist not to me personally thank you.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "lorettalorance" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 11:38 AM
> > Subject: Re: 9/11 Censorship? Statue of falling woman censored
> >
> >
> > > Let's see, this was a little while ago: Rudy Giuliani went to see
> > Sensations
> > > at the Brooklyn Museum. He saw a mixed media work, primarily a
painting,
> > by
> > > Chris Ofoli of the Madonna or Virgin Mary. Ofoli used elephant dung as
> > part
> > > of the body of Mary. Elephant dung is sacred where Ofoli comes from.
> > > Giuliani got upset and began a personal crusade against the Ofoli work
> of
> > > art. As mayor of NYC, of which Brooklyn is a part, he threatened to
pull
> > > city funding away from the museum unless it removed the Ofoli from the
> > > exhibition. He did not demand the closing of Sensations, only the
> removal
> > of
> > > the Ofoli. The media, especially the Post/Daily News papers which are
> > > somewhat sensationalists, took up the cry. Others got into the story.
> > Blah,
> > > blah, blah.
> > >
> > > After this Giuliani initiated some sort of city government watch-dog
> > office
> > > for art. I don't know if it's still in existence. It must not be or
that
> > > Fischl probably would have gotten into Rockefeller Center.
> > >
> > > So, the problem was not the entire Sensations show, it was one work in
> the
> > > show, the Ofoli which I think is now in some museum and his career has
> > > blossomed. The entire thing was started by a Roman Catholic mayor, who
> > > justifies cheating on his wife (at least 2 mistresses while mayor),
who
> > was
> > > offended.
> > >
> > > The mayor using the power of his office and the personal hypocrisy of
> his
> > > religion felt it his place to demand the removal on the work of art
that
> > > offended him. Bloomberg has not, as far as I know, made any comment on
> the
> > > Fischl. I haven't really seen anything on the Fischl in the NYC papers
> > since
> > > it was first mentioned, as "bad." I don't think the Times has even
> covered
> > > it, I could have missed it though. The only debate about whether or
not
> > the
> > > sculpture should stay that I've encountered is on this list. Other
> people
> > in
> > > NYC may be talking about it, but not the art historians I know.
> > >
> > > Perhaps you consider the man-who-was-mayor-on-a-personal-crusade,
> > Giuliani,
> > > and the offended general public the same thing. But, these are not at
> all
> > > the same stories.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "James Schulte" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 6:15 PM
> > > Subject: Re: 9/11 Censorship? Statue of falling woman censored
> > >
> > >
> > > > Loretta i have to beg to differ with you on Sensations, this exhibit
> was
> > > > offensive which began the Cities efforts to have it shut down. If no
> had
> > > > objected to its content and value there would have been no
controversy
> .
> > > So
> > > > the situation is similar. As for Guiliani"s reputation, he became a
> hero
> > > due
> > > > to his behavior durring this crisis, however his popularity was
fading
> > and
> > > > continues to fade with his womanizing.
> > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "lorettalorance" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 2:17 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: 9/11 Censorship? Statue of falling woman censored
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
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