Note to Ton: I think there are probably many of us that feel that way here
in the U.S. Theft is theft, no matter how you slice it, and I couldn't in
good conscience accept something for my museum that I knew had been stolen
or illegally exported.
The days of museum directors referring to "their favorite smuggler" are long
gone, I hope.
Claudia Nicholson
-----Original Message-----
From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of MSN CPPnet (Ton Cremers)
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 1:31 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] Theft or Unjust Enrichment
These are a lot of words for stating that if the acquisitions were illicit
objects should be returned and if they are not illicit the objects should
not be returned.
I could not agree more, and am very glad to read that an American Museum-L
subscriber supports the return of objects illicitly acquired.
Ton Cremers
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Museum discussion list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Indigo Nights
> Sent: 05 November 2005 17:43
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Theft or Unjust Enrichment
>
> I suppose quite a few of you are familiar with the tumult at
> the Getty and the upheavals of late. If you've been
> following their travails, you'll know that not only Italy,
> but now Greece, as well, are demanding the return of
> antiquities claiming they were stolen.
>
> I don't have a good grip on all the details, but things I
> have learned in the last two years are making me question
> whether the story being told by the other nations is reality
> or just an example of unjust enrichment.
>
> In the last two years, my guy and I visited both the Hearst
> Castle and Ca d'zan (among the many museums we've explored).
> In both instances, what struck me was there were precious
> treasures that had been moved from
> homes/palaces/castles/churches (whatever) and placed in these
> American mansions. It struck me at the time that this was
> such a tragedy, that riches of yore had been plundered by
> wealthy Americans who wanted to build their own castles.
>
> My memory of what was conveyed at both locales is that these
> things were purchased in the early 20th century when Europe
> was very poor and had a need to sell off such things to put
> bread and butter on the table.
> Americans had the money, and they paid to have the things
> relocated. There was no indication these were or were not
> government sanctioned. I was glad for the opportunity to see
> them, but saddened that the almighty dollar had been
> responsible in some fashion for encouraging the destruction
> of antiquities. The liberal in me said, though, that it
> allowed some to eat.
>
> Now, fast forward to the American treasure, The Getty.
> I can't begin to say whether the allegations of the Italians
> and Greek governments (and I suppose the Egyptians won't be
> far behind) is true or not. It is entirely conceivable to me
> that there were opportunists back when, who learned that
> Americans would pay and pillaged for profit. We cannot judge
> the transfer of knowledge as to ownership by today's
> standards, where everything is electronic and veritably
> instantaneous. Who is to say whether what transpired was
> legal or illegal? Not me.
>
> It just strikes me that, while I would not want to be party
> to theft, it would would not seem fair for these two nations
> to be unjustly enriched by these events either. If the
> transfer of items was a legitimate purchase at the time, and
> money crossed palms, why would it be ok for the two countries
> to demand the return of the antiquities without giving
> "consideration" (read compensation) to the Getty for the
> exchange, based on purchase price escalated by today's value
> of money (i.e., $100 at one point being equivalent to $100,000 today)?
>
> This has been bugging me of late. If the Getty is truly
> guilty, so be it, return the treasures. But if such were not
> the case, and this is simply a case of nationalism, no way,
> Jose. I rather think that anyone who is in possession of
> treasures that originated from foreign (or even Native
> American tribes) needs to take heed for the precedent this
> stands to set that could have an impact on the many institutions.
>
> In some ways, this post feels like the child saying the
> emperor is naked. Don't yell at me for asking; I really want
> to know and look to you experts for answers.
>
>
> Indigo Nights
> [log in to unmask]
>
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