John, You said: And only those dogs that help the physically disabled are allowed in museums. I say: In this day and age, many more people with MENTAL and NOT physical disabilities are being prescribed companion dogs for their well-being and to help them function in the real world. I would find it very discriminatory to not allow them into a public facility with their dog just because their condition is not readily apparent to the eye. Heather Marie Wells >From: John Martinson <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: Museum discussion list <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: Dogs >Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 19:52:31 -0600 > >Deb: > >First, I was not talking to you -- but in general terms. But, since you >replied..... > >You said: And people are allergic to perfumes and some dogs don't shed >enough or at all >to cause allergies. Should we start banning perfumed visitors too? > >I reply: Again, museums are for people and NOT for animals/pets. A dog >is there only to follow its >master...not to learn. Babies, as past discussions have mentioned, need >to be with parents. > >I would say more people are allergic to dogs than to perfume. And I would >rather smell some perfume than a dog with his rear hair smelling and things >a hanging. (if you know what I mean). ;o) > >My ex said her dog never shed hair. I put a tape on the chair and it >picked up lots of doggie hair. >matching the hair of the dog. > >You said: Heh. I can point you to many people who don't bathe nearly as >often as they >should, and they're not homeless people either. My dog rarely needs a bath >because he's got very short hair and thankfully stays away from icky >things. He >smells a lot better and keeps cleaner than a lot of kids I know. > >I reply: But museums are for people and not for animals/pets. And that is >your dog...other >dogs do need baths. And as a former curator....dog hair is bad on >collections, clean up, >jam filters of air cleaners, etc. > >Most kids takes baths and your dog doesn't - no dander. I don't think >so. And when the dog is >out rolling in the dirt - no dirt gets in his/her hair? > >You said: Again, I'd wager that the screaming 6 month old isn't getting >much out of the >museum experience or that the toodler (don't you mean "toddler"???) who >constantly runs away from Mommy isn't either. Bored teen-agers and >boyfriends who get dragged to art galleries by >their girlfriends probably aren't absorbing anything either. While my dog >probably won't learn much, he is appreciative of getting a walk which is >one up >on the bored teen-agers and boyfriends. > >I reply: But other people are not appreciative of dogs in public places. >Museums are not for pets, but for people -- and Deb -- yup, even for >children. Surely in a fine art museum, where people want to take in the >art or exhibit, having a pet there (when it does not have to be) it does >would get visitors upset. Next you will say -- allow cows, sheep and >horses and "charge a fee." > >Parents, with children are allowed in museums. They are people. Dogs and >pets are personal things. You have them, but other people do not. Keep >them at home, in the kennel or walk them in the park. Surely, your are not >providing your animal a good walk in a museum -- looking at exhibits? > >You said: Properly trimmed they don't and they are much less damaging than >high heels, >sneakers, and stroller wheels. > >I reply: But museums are for not for pets, but for people. > >And how many people "properly trim" their animals? Very few...how many >people bath their animals? >Very few. > >You said: I assume you mean sniff. (See we all make mistakes! LOL) >My old dachshound (isn't it dachshund????) wasn't high enough off the >ground to >sniff past your ankles. And again, properly trained dogs don't do that. >I've >been pawed by plenty of kids who didn't know how to keep their hands to >themselves. > >I reply: Even properly trained dogs are not allowed in most museums, >except Canine Companion or seeing eye dogs. > >Are people with dogs going to be required to show a paper that "their >animal is trained"? > > > Children earn money for a museum, pets do not. > >You said: Charge a pet admission. > >I reply: Oh get real! Sheesh! Then any pet could be coming into the >museum, trained or not trained. >Where do you draw the line. Then discrimination cases would be filed and >you would have many upset customers. Or they will say "XYZ" Museum allows >my pet Snaggle-puss. Why don't you?" > >You said: Well that is a problem with inconsiderate dog owners. On the >flip side, how >many kids pick up after themselves these days? > >I reply: We are talking about doggie do-do. We are talking about >exhibits, expensive buildings, art, collections, and dog hair and smell. >If dogs are allowed, I'm sure more doggie do-do and urine would be on the >floor than with children. > >I walk on many trails in our local canyons where dogs are allowed and >suppose to be on leach. Very >few are, and very few clean them up. The train is covered with doggie >poop. The dogs are also chasing the wildlife, and leaving the trails on >private property. Again, this has to do with training and the owners >themselves not carrying. Their doggies own the world, and they are allowed >to poop and pee where ever they want...and on museum lawns. Female doggie >urine leaves yellow spots. More expenses to already tight museum budgets. >All for those doggies! > >You said: Uh, no. Pet allergies are caused by pet dander and hair, not by >drool. Don't >know what you mean by dribble tho'. > >I reply: Allergies are not only caused by "pet dander and hair" but by the >drool of them licking themselves constantly, and that "material" flying >through the air when it is dried. It is the dried drool that is a great >deal of the problem with people who suffer from allergies, not just the >skin dander. > >The following is from a dog site: "There is no dog breed that is truly >non-allergenic (not allergy causing) because all (emphasis my own) dogs >produce dander (shed skin cells), saliva, and urine that people can be >allergic to. Allergy-producing proteins, allergens, in the dander or saliva >can produce nasal congestion, sneezing, itchy and watery eyes, skin rashes, >headaches, fatigue, and serious asthma attacks. The word hypo-allergenic >(less allergy causing) is typically used with skin care products that tend >to be less irritating to sensitive skin." Source: >http://members.aol.com/AHTerrier/allergies.html<http://members.aol.com/AHTerrier/allergies.html> > >You said: My dog will do the sniff thing but he only barks when he's >playing at the puppy >park and he's never gotten into a fight. > >I reply: And if your dog sniffed on me, I would be allowed to make the >museum pay for cleaning my clothing? If I were in a museum and a dog >comes up and drolls on me or puts a wet nose on me....and ruin a dress, >skirt or slacks I would be upset. Very few children would do that. > >You said: Riiiiight. They're little angels all the time. *snort* > >I reply: Riiiight. But children are allowed in museums, and dogs are not. > And you are speaking >only about "your" own doggie. Are you implying all dogs are such well >mannered? I think not. > >I walk our dog and there are dogs that are passive, while others are very >aggressive. > >Are museum going to be legally binding for any dog bites, people who trip >on your animals leash or >tip over exhibits or artifacts. Are dog owners going to pay for damages? > >And what about dogs at outdoor parks, with chickens, cows, sheep. They >chase the animals, >and people do not stop them. Dogs at our park were constantly killing our >rare breed of sheep, >chickens and ducks. Yup, those well trained dogs. > >You said: You need to get to your local playground more often. Children >can be louder and >more destructive than dogs. > >I reply: But museums are for people, and playgrounds are for children. >Children are excited, >and do get loud..that is what they do at playgrounds. But for my child to >play and fall in a >doggie do-do.....that is very upsetting. > > >The office would spell like a pet kennel! > >You said: Uh, again, the offices where I worked at that allowed pets smelt >no different >than offices with pets. > >I reply: And most people with pets, are so use to the smell they cannot >smell animal smell in their >own homes. However, a new person coming into house -- it does smell, >especially someone with allergies. Their eyes water, nose runs, etc. > > > NO PETS IN MUSEUMS! Because you like pets, does not mean everyone else >has > > to be disturbed by what one feels is "a human" but is a dog! > >You said: I don't think pets are human but I do think my dog is better >behaved that a lot >of children I see. And while I wasn't in Germany that long, I saw plenty of >dogs in resturants (do you mean restaurants?) and shops but narry a yip, >sniff, or poop. Most of the time >you didn't notice that they were around except for a water dish under the >table. So if Germany can learn to deal with pets, why can't America? > >I reply: So museums are going to be required to keep water dishes, and you >don't think the >slurping and lapping is not going to be disrupting the learning experience? > >And golly gee, to sit in a restaurant and hear a dog lapping and dripping >to get a scrap of food, >I would walk out. > >And you are speaking only of your dog. I am willing to say that that is a >very small percent of >people who would have dogs trained enough to enter a museum. And are they >going to be >on a leash or running free? > > > Sorry, IMHO, pets are not human and should not be allowed in museums. > > Children are human. > >You said: Well I'd argue that some children aren't that human either. ;) > >I reply: But they are human...and no matter what you might say -- doggies >are dogs. And only >those dogs that help the physically disabled are allowed in museums. > >John > >========================================================= >Important Subscriber Information: > >The Museum-L FAQ file is located at >http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed >information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail >message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should >read "help" (without the quotes). > >If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to >[log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff >Museum-L" (without the quotes). _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ========================================================= Important Subscriber Information: The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . 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