Thanks for your comment. That option should always be considered.
MY initial question was more hypothetical than specific...and it is not connection the Gilcrease.
Your point about education collections brings up another worthy question that deserves its own discussion.
Thanks!
Bob
Robert B. Pickering, PhD
Professor of Anthropology,
Director, Museum Science and Management, University of Tulsa
Adjunct Curator, Gilcrease Museum
800 S. Tucker Drive
Tulsa, OK 74104-9700
(918) 631-2387 Office
(918) 596-2770 Fax
(918) 805-4780 Cell
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Marybeth S Tomka
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2019 9:05 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] MUSEUM-L Digest - 6 Nov 2019 to 7 Nov 2019 (#2019-274) returning objects
Bob,
I can understand your need to return objects that no longer fit your mission of scope of collections. Have you considered sharing your bounty with archaeological societies who do outreach or even school groups. Of course, you would need to make sure that the donor's form does not prohibit you rehoming the objects. Many museums "deaccession" to teaching collections or for outreach activities.
Just a thought.
Marybeth
Marybeth S. F. Tomka, M.A., PS Cert CM
Head of Collections
TARL
The University of Texas at Austin
1 University Station R7500
Austin, Texas 78712
512-475-6853 direct line
512-232-6563 fax
512-471-5960 TARL main phone
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-----Original Message-----
From: Museum discussion list <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of MUSEUM-L automatic digest system
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2019 11:00 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: MUSEUM-L Digest - 6 Nov 2019 to 7 Nov 2019 (#2019-274)
There are 8 messages totaling 1872 lines in this issue.
2. returning objects (6)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 18:45:38 +0000
From: "Pickering, Bob" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: returning objects
A colleague & I have been discussing deaccession processes and the subject came up about returning catalogued objects to original owners or their descendants. We are not talking about NAGPRA or stolen objects. We were thinking more in the line of objects in a collection that no longer have significance to the institution.
We agreed that this path is fraught with danger but neither of us could think of a law or hard and fast rule that prohibits returns. Clearly, if a tax benefit was taken by the donor, that complicates the situation.
Does your institution discuss this option in a collections policy? Your thoughts?
Robert B. Pickering, PhD
Professor of Anthropology,
Director, Museum Science and Management, University of Tulsa Adjunct Curator, Gilcrease Museum
800 S. Tucker Drive
Tulsa, OK 74104-9700
(918) 631-2387 Office
(918) 596-2770 Fax
(918) 805-4780 Cell
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 12:56:22 -0600
From: Amanda Roberts <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: returning objects
I’m interested in this as well.
Amanda
> On Nov 7, 2019, at 12:49 PM, Pickering, Bob <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
> A colleague & I have been discussing deaccession processes and the subject came up about returning catalogued objects to original owners or their descendants. We are not talking about NAGPRA or stolen objects. We were thinking more in the line of objects in a collection that no longer have significance to the institution.
>
> We agreed that this path is fraught with danger but neither of us could think of a law or hard and fast rule that prohibits returns. Clearly, if a tax benefit was taken by the donor, that complicates the situation.
>
> Does your institution discuss this option in a collections policy? Your thoughts?
>
> Robert B. Pickering, PhD
> Professor of Anthropology,
> Director, Museum Science and Management, University of Tulsa Adjunct
> Curator, Gilcrease Museum
> 800 S. Tucker Drive
> Tulsa, OK 74104-9700
> (918) 631-2387 Office
> (918) 596-2770 Fax
> (918) 805-4780 Cell
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from the MUSEUM-L list, click the following link:
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.
> ease.lsoft.com%2Fscripts%2Fwa-HOME.exe%3FSUBED1%3DMUSEUM-L%26A%3D1&
> ;data=02%7C01%7Cbob-pickering%40UTULSA.EDU%7C529f290d2b4149d4cd7a08d76
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 11:13:55 -0800
From: "topladave ." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: returning objects
Hi Bob,
Correct me if I am wrong, but I've always thought that any tax benefits are the sole responsibility of the donors. In a major museum I worked in the curators always told donors that when they were asked to provide valuations. And in my career in conservation in a regional center and private firms we were often asked for valuations for insurance purposes and our guidance was always that is the responsibility of the owner.
Is it our place to tell former donors about any IRS liabilities for returned art and objects if we are not their lawyers?
I would think in this issue a museum could have a policy of first offering return of de-accessioned art and objects to the original owners or their heirs before consignment for auction or to other museums.
Cheers!
Dave
David Harvey
Principal Conservator & Museum Consultant Los Angeles, CA. USA https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.cityofangelsconservation.weebly.com&data=02%7C01%7Cbob-pickering%40UTULSA.EDU%7C529f290d2b4149d4cd7a08d7645d4e60%7Cd4ff013c62b74167924f5bd93e8202d3%7C0%7C1%7C637088224230250038&sdata=5BD5eiigSl1DUcyPkZZVc0LiGhEfQ42y8qr%2FBg4Ai80%3D&reserved=0
On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 10:49 AM Pickering, Bob <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> A colleague & I have been discussing deaccession processes and the
> subject came up about returning catalogued objects to original owners
> or their descendants. We are not talking about NAGPRA or stolen
> objects. We were thinking more in the line of objects in a collection
> that no longer have significance to the institution.
>
>
>
> We agreed that this path is fraught with danger but neither of us
> could think of a law or hard and fast rule that prohibits returns.
> Clearly, if a tax benefit was taken by the donor, that complicates the situation.
>
>
>
> Does your institution discuss this option in a collections policy?
> Your thoughts?
>
>
>
> Robert B. Pickering, PhD
>
> Professor of Anthropology,
>
> Director, Museum Science and Management, University of Tulsa
>
> Adjunct Curator, Gilcrease Museum
>
> 800 S. Tucker Drive
>
> Tulsa, OK 74104-9700
>
> (918) 631-2387 Office
>
> (918) 596-2770 Fax
>
> (918) 805-4780 Cell
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from the MUSEUM-L list, click the following link:
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.
> ease.lsoft.com%2Fscripts%2Fwa-HOME.exe%3FSUBED1%3DMUSEUM-L%26A%3D1&
> ;data=02%7C01%7Cbob-pickering%40UTULSA.EDU%7C529f290d2b4149d4cd7a08d76
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> erved=0
>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 19:19:34 +0000
From: "Pickering, Bob" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: returning objects
You bring up a good point. Yes, the tax deduction is between the donor, their accountant and the IRS. That said, if an item were returned, as a matter of good faith, I’d probably suggest to the donor that there may be tax implications and that it is their responsibility to check.
Bp
Robert B. Pickering, PhD
Professor of Anthropology,
Director, Museum Science and Management, University of Tulsa Adjunct Curator, Gilcrease Museum
800 S. Tucker Drive
Tulsa, OK 74104-9700
(918) 631-2387 Office
(918) 596-2770 Fax
(918) 805-4780 Cell
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of topladave .
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2019 1:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] returning objects
Hi Bob,
Correct me if I am wrong, but I've always thought that any tax benefits are the sole responsibility of the donors. In a major museum I worked in the curators always told donors that when they were asked to provide valuations. And in my career in conservation in a regional center and private firms we were often asked for valuations for insurance purposes and our guidance was always that is the responsibility of the owner.
Is it our place to tell former donors about any IRS liabilities for returned art and objects if we are not their lawyers?
I would think in this issue a museum could have a policy of first offering return of de-accessioned art and objects to the original owners or their heirs before consignment for auction or to other museums.
Cheers!
Dave
David Harvey
Principal Conservator & Museum Consultant Los Angeles, CA. USA https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.cityofangelsconservation.weebly.com&data=02%7C01%7Cbob-pickering%40UTULSA.EDU%7C529f290d2b4149d4cd7a08d7645d4e60%7Cd4ff013c62b74167924f5bd93e8202d3%7C0%7C1%7C637088224230250038&sdata=5BD5eiigSl1DUcyPkZZVc0LiGhEfQ42y8qr%2FBg4Ai80%3D&reserved=0<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cityofangelsconservation.weebly.com&data=02%7C01%7Cbob-pickering%40UTULSA.EDU%7C529f290d2b4149d4cd7a08d7645d4e60%7Cd4ff013c62b74167924f5bd93e8202d3%7C0%7C1%7C637088224230250038&sdata=A4EmtRuqvnRSZLc%2FLqNpxwzh2V29EpAue0Was3rIsNg%3D&reserved=0>
On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 10:49 AM Pickering, Bob <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
A colleague & I have been discussing deaccession processes and the subject came up about returning catalogued objects to original owners or their descendants. We are not talking about NAGPRA or stolen objects. We were thinking more in the line of objects in a collection that no longer have significance to the institution.
We agreed that this path is fraught with danger but neither of us could think of a law or hard and fast rule that prohibits returns. Clearly, if a tax benefit was taken by the donor, that complicates the situation.
Does your institution discuss this option in a collections policy? Your thoughts?
Robert B. Pickering, PhD
Professor of Anthropology,
Director, Museum Science and Management, University of Tulsa Adjunct Curator, Gilcrease Museum
800 S. Tucker Drive
Tulsa, OK 74104-9700
(918) 631-2387 Office
(918) 596-2770 Fax
(918) 805-4780 Cell
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 13:12:43 -0700
From: Miners Museum <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: returning objects
To my understanding, there is a statue of limitations on the tax implication of a return like this. I don't recall the timeline off the top of my head, but I believe it is 3 years. If the donor claimed the donation on their taxes, and then the object is disposed of by the museum within 3 years, it must be reported to the donor and IRS. This is true whether it is returned to the donor or deaccessioned and disposed of in another way (i.e.
you would still need to tell the donor you got rid of the item if you didn't return it to them.)
I believe the official IRS reporting burden falls onto the donor and their accountant... There could also be added complications for reporting if the donation value is over $5,000.
I recommend consulting "A Legal Primer on Managing Museum Collections" by Marie C. Malaro and Ildiko DeAngelis. You can also reference IRS form 8283, as I believe this is the form that the donor would have filled out to claim the tax deduction. It should have language about returns and reporting.
I had to deal with this situation a few years ago, so I'm a little foggy on the details, but I remember the primer and IRS forms being essential resources.
Hope this helps!
-Krista
On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 12:20 PM Pickering, Bob <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> You bring up a good point. Yes, the tax deduction is between the
> donor, their accountant and the IRS. That said, if an item were
> returned, as a matter of good faith, I’d probably suggest to the donor
> that there may be tax implications and that it is their responsibility to check.
>
>
>
> Bp
>
> Robert B. Pickering, PhD
>
> Professor of Anthropology,
>
> Director, Museum Science and Management, University of Tulsa
>
> Adjunct Curator, Gilcrease Museum
>
> 800 S. Tucker Drive
>
> Tulsa, OK 74104-9700
>
> (918) 631-2387 Office
>
> (918) 596-2770 Fax
>
> (918) 805-4780 Cell
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
> *From:* Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> *On Behalf Of *topladave .
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 07, 2019 1:14 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: [MUSEUM-L] returning objects
>
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
>
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but I've always thought that any tax
> benefits are the sole responsibility of the donors. In a major museum
> I worked in the curators always told donors that when they were asked
> to provide valuations. And in my career in conservation in a regional
> center and private firms we were often asked for valuations for
> insurance purposes and our guidance was always that is the responsibility of the owner.
>
>
>
> Is it our place to tell former donors about any IRS liabilities for
> returned art and objects if we are not their lawyers?
>
>
>
> I would think in this issue a museum could have a policy of first
> offering return of de-accessioned art and objects to the original
> owners or their heirs before consignment for auction or to other museums.
>
>
>
> Cheers!
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> David Harvey
>
> Principal Conservator & Museum Consultant
>
> Los Angeles, CA. USA
>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.cityofangelsco
> nservation.weebly.com&data=02%7C01%7Cbob-pickering%40UTULSA.EDU%7C
> 529f290d2b4149d4cd7a08d7645d4e60%7Cd4ff013c62b74167924f5bd93e8202d3%7C
> 0%7C1%7C637088224230260033&sdata=7rAL6ea%2B9U%2Fn3Z9FVnjpVoILgLZRD
> CWikb6Qlys3yII%3D&reserved=0
> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> cityofangelsconservation.weebly.com&data=02%7C01%7Cbob-pickering%40UTU
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> NNeQhKlT2pfJbI0s%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 10:49 AM Pickering, Bob
> <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> A colleague & I have been discussing deaccession processes and the
> subject came up about returning catalogued objects to original owners
> or their descendants. We are not talking about NAGPRA or stolen
> objects. We were thinking more in the line of objects in a collection
> that no longer have significance to the institution.
>
>
>
> We agreed that this path is fraught with danger but neither of us
> could think of a law or hard and fast rule that prohibits returns.
> Clearly, if a tax benefit was taken by the donor, that complicates the situation.
>
>
>
> Does your institution discuss this option in a collections policy?
> Your thoughts?
>
>
>
> Robert B. Pickering, PhD
>
> Professor of Anthropology,
>
> Director, Museum Science and Management, University of Tulsa
>
> Adjunct Curator, Gilcrease Museum
>
> 800 S. Tucker Drive
>
> Tulsa, OK 74104-9700
>
> (918) 631-2387 Office
>
> (918) 596-2770 Fax
>
> (918) 805-4780 Cell
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from the MUSEUM-L list, click the following link:
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.
> ease.lsoft.com%2Fscripts%2Fwa-HOME.exe%3FSUBED1%3DMUSEUM-L%26A%3D1&
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--
Krista Barry
*Museum Administrator*
*Lafayette Miners Museum*
108 E. Simpson St
Lafayette, CO 80026
(303) 665-7030
*[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>*
*[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>*
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Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 16:33:39 -0600
From: Tim Mc <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: temporary part time collections assistant
Fort Worth, Texas
On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 10:59 AM Elizabeth Walton <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> What is the city and state?
>
> On Wed, Nov 6, 2019, 10:01 AM Tim McElroy <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Good morning,
>>
>> I am sharing a posting for a temporary collections assistant position.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> Archives and Collections Intern position This is a unique opportunity
>> for students or recent graduates who seek to gain practical
>> experience in collections care. Successful candidates will work with
>> the Director of Archives and Collections to rehouse parts of the
>> corporate archives and collections as well as assist in maintaining
>> an inventory of the collection. Interns will work with the
>> collections database system, Past Perfect, by inputting data
>> collected from the inventory. Interns will also have the opportunity
>> to assist with reconciling objects flagged during inventory by
>> researching and reviewing museum’s paper and digital records.
>> Duties and Responsibilities:
>> • Create catalog records for museum collections
>> • Conduct data entry in the collections management database, Past
>> Perfect
>> • Update existing catalog records for museum collections
>> • Assist with housing and/or rehousing of archives and artifacts
>> • Marking and tagging of collections
>> Knowledge and Skills:
>> • Knowledge of material assets and accepted standards for storage
>> and handling of objects
>> • Familiarity with collection management database systems;
>> knowledge of Past Perfect collections management system preferred
>> • Well-organized, methodical, able to work independently and
>> cooperatively with others
>> • Ability to organize and prioritize duties
>> • Accuracy and attention to detail
>> Compensation depends on experience and qualifications. This is a part
>> time temporary position for approximately 16-20 hours per week and
>> the term of employment is expected to be for three months. Interested
>> applicants should send a resume and cover letter detailing how they
>> would be a good fit for the position to Tim McElroy, Director of
>> Archives and Collections, [log in to unmask]
>>
>> All candidates must pass a background check before starting employment.
>> No phone calls please.
>>
>> =========================================================
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Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 17:49:56 -0700
From: Michael Rebman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: returning objects
Greetings,
While there is no hard and fast rule depending on the area that I know of, there is the problem of public property being disposed outside of the legal channels for getting rid of public property (as defined by state laws governing public sector property). That is definitely the case for municipal museums in New Mexico, but I do not know if that is the case for state universities outside of New Mexico. I also do not know if returning items given to a public entity would specifically constitute an unlawful disposal of public property. I would definitely avoid returning items to private individuals once they become public property. Items held in a public trust by a public museum are still public property, even though museums operate differently from other agencies, and depending on the value of the items, it could lead to state auditors putting up red flags if items of significant value are given away and not disposed of through auction, destruction, or institutional transfer.
Thank you,
Michael R. <[log in to unmask]>
On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 11:49 AM Pickering, Bob <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> We agreed that this path is fraught with danger but neither of us
> could think of a law or hard and fast rule that prohibits returns.
> Clearly, if a tax benefit was taken by the donor, that complicates the situation.
>
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End of MUSEUM-L Digest - 6 Nov 2019 to 7 Nov 2019 (#2019-274)
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