I think it's a good discussion for the group as well. It's certainly a difficult one, filled with emotion. But it is a debate that museum professionals can, and should, be having. Something I haven't seen in a post is the question of the creation museum actually being a museum. I haven't been there, but get the idea that there isn't actually a collection held or displayed there. Is it even a museum (or a, for want of a better word, theme park)? There was a short discussion a while ago on what makes a museum based on another collection. Creation/Evolution debate aside, is it even a museum? That is a discussion appropriate for this group.
I agree that the owners of the place should be able to show and say what they want as a basic right of free speech. But free speech doesn't mean unchallenged speech. And when arguments are made that equate a belief or faith with science, then it's certainly appropriate for scientists and other experts to weigh in and remind us that faith and science are, indeed, two different animals altogether. Or that the use of the word "theory" means something very different to scientists than to the rest of us.
Personally, I think the whole idea of the place to be ludicrous and silly, but I find the discussion around it invigorating. Argument on both sides isn't stopping the free flow of information - it is encouraging one of the best things that free flow has to offer - debate.
Nancy
-----Original Message-----
From: Museum discussion list on behalf of John Martinson
Sent: Sat 6/16/2007 12:49 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] Creation Museum : take it off line, please! - DON'T
Hey, I've enjoyed the discussions!
It has been a while since I have commented on a topic, so here is my two cents worth on the subject of museums and exhibits.
When is it the responsibility of another museum or people to tell a museum what
it can and cannot exhibit? When one museum simply disagrees with a theory
or subject they are exhibiting? Is the subject in need of censorship for nudity?
inappropriate words that children (and adults) should not see?
Because there is a difference of opinion on the subject of Evolution vs. Creationism,
does that make one more correct than the other? Myself, I see loop hope in both
"theories" -- and as some have posted -- BOTH take a great amount of "faith" to believe and accept. It is a simply fact --- BOTH are still theories.
1. Evolution: I have seen no solid evidence that two creatures timed it exactly to crawl out a swamp and evolved up to man at the same time. Because an ape like man looks like a man -- does not make it a human being. I have see no "missing link". I have seen no solid evidence that a dog turned into a cat, or a mouse into a lion, or a ant into a bat. Instead, I have seen "extinction" of animals -- the opposite where animals die off when they are faced with environmental problems. Yes, a bird can change a big to "adapt" to the environment or a moth change its colors to match a building to hide. Yes, some animals have "changed" within their species, but NOT change into a completely different species. There is no such species. I also see when something is different the majority usually wipes out those with differences. We, human beings, are a great example of this. Yes, I would like to see exhibits on the subject of evolution.
2. Creationism. I have not see God -- have you? I cannot prove exactly that there is a God, and it does take faith as does evolution. And I have wondered is "God" a subject or belief system created because people feared death, the unknown, and nature --- and creating spiritualism/religion or a God was an answer to what was beyond life -- and into the eternities beyond the grave? I would be interested in exhibits providing me with new insight on this subject.
Which one is right? A majority of people in America accepts a God or creator over evolution. Many museum professionals accept evolution over creationism. Again, they are both subjects that takes faith and up to the individual, not for the museum staff to decide what should be presented especially if the museum is not their own. Should we stop either from being on exhibit or presented at a museum -- no!
In addition, this list is about museums such as -- zoos, children museums, gardens, organizations without collections that consider themselves museums, etc. In addition, the list is open to questions from people with concepts related to museums, e.g., exhibits, interpretation, etc. To me the subject of a museum showing exhibits on God, Satan, how life was created, evolution, Big Foot, Mormonism, Hilter, a bible in a bottle of piss, nudity, if men live on Mars, etc. ----> are ALL open subjects to ANY museum.
It is a forum that should not black list any "concept" or "theory" because people in the museum field disagree with a subject that does not fit their own believe system. A museum is about the "public" not what the staff of a museum is oppose too, and this is exactly what this debate of evolution vs. creationism has been about. And that is totally wrong and an injustice to educating the public. Let the exhibits flow no matter what the content is -- and let the people decide. There is an exhibit at the Idaho Museum of Natural History on Big Foot, and they thought people would reject it as all "theory". However, the exhibit has been one of there most popular exhibits.
That is what museums are about -- to educate, to entertain, to present different views. And if ANY one tries to stop this free flow of information. You naughty, naughty person you. YOU are the one at fault for taking away a forum of exhibit, interpretation and learning for our public.
For me -- I would be totally against any professional museum person who tries to stop ANY exhibit either on exhibiting thoughts about creationism or evolution.
Off my soap box . . .
John
Boise, Idaho
----- Original Message -----
From: Judith Turner<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] Creation Museum : take it off line, please! - DON'T
Since you brought it up, Jerry, here's the message the
previous poster and here's the reply that I sent
off-list to him. It applies to everyone who
--- Jerry Symonds <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> As a previous site member suggested, can those who
> wish to continue
> discussing the Creation Museum not take this off
> line, set up their own
> discussion forum, whatever...?
Quoting the earlier post:
--- Shane Carrico <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> How about you folks who want to keep on having this
> discussion CREATE
> a new list-serv for yourselves? I don't think it's
> going to evolve any
> time soon. I would like to naturally select myself
> out of further
> conversations!!
> Shane Carrico
The first attempt at censorship merited a personal
reply (copied below); subsequent ones do not, in my
opinion. When a subject keeps coming up that's
because people still want/need to talk about it.
Please don't forget that the people who created the
Creation Museum made this a topic for Museum-L by
calling their entertainment center a museum.
Dear [insert name]
You've plenty of options, other than trying to stifle
a discussion you don't find of interest. Use the
delete key, go no mail for a while or set your email
program to filter out messages with the subject
creation.
Unlike the highly repetitive requests for advice and
assistance for very local problems, this thread has
contained some insightful comments on the role and
responsibility of museums to educate their publics as
well as a cross-section of people's ideas about
science and religion.
Nobody is going to change anybody's mind on a such a
hot-button topic with a Listserv discussion, but just
maybe it will get some people thinking about how their
museums interpret the natural and cultural world.
____________________________________________________________________________________
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