I like delete as much as the next person, and I'm also staying pretty clear
of this discussion.
I've also deleted five or six replies that I have begun to various posts on
the subject.
Did I miss a conversation during which we discussed the responsibility of
our trustees to build sound policies to protect us from having to do that
ourselves? I hope my voice doesn't come off as angry at posts. Discuss as
you will and be encouraged to look beyond troubles at hand.
Rusty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rachel Talent" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] creationism and museums
> Okay, I've stayed out of this, BUT....
>
> I am of the opinion that if you don't feel something is applicable to
> your particular "museum" situation JUST CLICK DELETE, as many of us do
> most of the time when we see a subject line that we know holds no
> interest for us. After reading the first post this morning on the topic,
> I am aware throughout the rest of the day that all the other posts
> coming into my mailbox with the same subject line are related. I hold no
> ill will towards those who, oh, I don't know...work in science museums,
> that may be interested in a topic that I am not. Just as I don't become
> upset when someone asks questions about fire trucks or farm equipment.
>
>
>
> Rachel Talent Ivers
> Registrar/Exhibitions Coordinator
> Bass Museum of Art
> 2121 Park Avenue
> Miami Beach, FL 33139
> tel. 305.673.7530
> fax 305.673.7062
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of unlisted
> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:17 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: creationism
>
>
> What does any of this have to do with museums?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sasha Carrera" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] creationism
>
>
> > This may seem an odd question, but are there any other faiths that
> > take
> > the
> > Genesis version of how the world was created literally? You hear about
> it
> > being a purely Christian fundamentalist thing, I'm wondering if there
> are
> > Jewish or even Muslim groups that believe in Creationism too.
> > Just wondering,
> > Sasha
> >
> >
> > On 8/3/05 12:19 PM, "Mark Janzen" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >> Rebecca,
> >>
> >> Yes, the "they" in this case are the pushers of Christian philosophy
> >> as science, largely embodied by the Discovery Institute. Sorry if
> >> that was not clear. I do indeed consider the movement rather
> >> sinister, but that is probably the result of my personal feelings on
> >> science and my love of my rights as an American.
> >>
> >> 1. Actually the proof is in the testing that has been done over the
> >> past 125 years. That is what people do not understand about the
> >> topic, and the central reason ID is not a competitor with evolution.
> >> No one is asking anyone to take science on "faith". Science presents
> >> the evidence, and allows it to speak for itself. If you do not think
> >> the evidence is sufficient, and you prefer to assume intelligent
> >> design, then so be it. Just do not call it science.
> >>
> >> 2. ID/creationism can not be disproved...it is faith. As a matter of
> >> fact,
> >> no one is trying to disprove it. It is the other way around.
> Evolution is
> >> definitely still "standing", as nothing has yet presented a
> substantive
> >> alternative.
> >>
> >> 3. Then you need to start laughing. That is exactly what ID says, but
>
> >> not is so few words. They believe their point of view is true because
>
> >> their book says so. End of discussion(from their end anyway).
> >>
> >> You are absolutely correct. Both science and religion are integral
> >> parts
> >> of
> >> human society and philosophy. We need both. However, what we also
> need
> >> are
> >> people who understand both, and where the dividing lines lie between
> >> them.
> >> I do indeed hold both scientific and religious leaders in high
> esteem,
> >> but
> >> leading and making positive contribution is far different from being
> the
> >> one who shouts the loudest in a conversation.
> >>
> >> Making a place for our children to be exposed to both is what we were
> >> just
> >> talking about, and nothing is wrong with it at all. The point is that
> it
> >> needs to be done in the right place, and the science/biology
> classroom is
> >> not the place for both. The unscarred adults who have been exposed to
>
> >> both
> >> theories were exposed in the proper places, i.e. biology class and
> >> church.
> >> The children who may be subjected to the travesty suggested by ID
> >> proponents will definitely scar our children, and produce an
> educational
> >> blight that will be very difficult to eradicate once the mistake is
> made.
> >>
> >> Indeed. We should certainly not allow the current confusion over the
> >> nature
> >> of the topic to enter into our interpretations and color the
> information
> >> we
> >> present to the public, whether they think it should be there or not.
> >>
> >> Mark Janzen
> >> Registrar/Collections Manager
> >> Edwin A. Ulrich Museum of Art
> >> Martin H. Bush Outdoor Sculpture Collection
> >> Wichita State University
> >> (316)978-5850
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Rebecca
> >> Fitzgerald
> >> <rafitzgerald@COM
> >> To
> >> CAST.NET> [log in to unmask]
> >> Sent by: Museum
> >> cc
> >> discussion list
> >> <[log in to unmask]
> >> Subject
> >> SE.LSOFT.COM> Re: A washingtonpost.com
> article
> >> from: [log in to unmask]
> >>
> >> 08/03/2005 01:54
> >> PM
> >>
> >>
> >> Please respond to
> >> Museum discussion
> >> list
> >> <[log in to unmask]
> >> SE.LSOFT.COM>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> I like to remind people that this controversy is not about evolution
>
> >>> or even science. It is about telling other people what they should
> >>> believe, and what is right and wrong.
> >>
> >> And this of course is the crux of most of the problems of the world.
> >> In every debate there are those on each side who feel that they're
> >> having the opposite view forced on them.
> >>
> >> By the way, who are "they?" In this case is "they" an organized group
>
> >> pushing ID, or the millions of people who believe that that God
> >> created the universe and every thing in it, whether in a week, or by
> >> initiating that moment of creation - what some folks call the "big
> >> bang." Or is "they" some
> >> other sinister group?
> >>
> >> Science and religion necessarily intersect in this discussion, since
> >> both consider our origin as part of their "turf." So, after many
> >> years of studying this debate, and reading all there is on the
> >> subject, I'm forced to
> >> ask:
> >> 1. Where's the proof? If science cannot produce the proof, then
> >> they're asking me to take it on faith. Hmmm...that's exactly what
> >> religion asks too. 2. If the authority is an evolution theory that's
> >> still standing, then I'd
> >> have to say that no one has disproved creationism/ID yet either.
> >> 3. If either side says, "Because I'm the "illustrious grand poobah"
> and I
> >> said so, well then, I'd have to laugh at their arrogance.
> >>
> >> We hold both our scientists and our religious leaders in high esteem.
>
> >> Our world is much richer for both but they both have had their dark
> >> days. Frankly, we NEED both religion and science in our world today.
> >>
> >> What is wrong with teaching both theories? Why not make a place in
> >> our schools for students to be exposed to both? Virtually every adult
>
> >> over the age of 45 WAS exposed to both theories - and it doesn't seem
>
> >> that those generations were terribly scarred by the experience.
> >>
> >> Bringing this back to practical museum work - it's so easy to
> >> influence folks through museum exhibits and programming. I'm always
> >> humbled by the vast educational influence that we wield. It is so
> >> important that we "get it right" and avoid bending our exhibits and
> >> interpretation to the current politically correct viewpoint.
> >>
> >> Becky Fitzgerald
> >> Susquehanna Museum
> >>
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