Ummm, maybe it's ok to teach ID in private schools, but separation of church
and state indicates to me that any sort of religious anything has NO place
in our public schools. The founding fathers weren't "born again," I imagine
for the most part they were middling Episcopalians or Congregationalists and
from my experience, most Episcopalians believe you can have faith while
believing in evolution. That's because people who learn science in one
setting and religion in another are capable of metaphorical thinking. Also,
studying philosophy raises many of the same questions as ID and philosophy
is considered HUMANIST not fundamentalist Christian. We are slowly edging
towards becoming the Christian equivalent of the fundamentalist Muslim
state. From ID in schools to the Patriot Act, to the censorship of people
getting funding from the NEA and NEH to lack of privacy in matters of
reproductive choice, to the conservative castration of public broadcasting,
we are inch by inch being railroaded into a "morality" that defies the
freedoms this nation was built on. And all those who don't care because
"science" is not their focus, ought to take note. It's the same thing
ideology that's cutting the funding for the arts (which I'd wager DOES
affect your museum) that's insisting that we force a particular religious
view on the entire population.

On 8/3/05 8:00 PM, "Stephen Nowlin" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>> By the way, who are "they?"
> 
> "They" are the Discovery Institute (http://www.discovery.org) as well as a
> network of fundamentalist religious denominations that support an anti-science
> agenda and the spread of ID, and apparently, sadly, the President of the
> United States is also one of "them."
> 
>> 1. Where's the proof? If science cannot produce the proof, then they're
>> asking me to take it on faith. Hmmm...that's exactly what religion asks too.
> 
> In religion, faith spans the yawning gap between what science/empiricism tell
> us about the world, and what theology tells us.  In science, observation leads
> to hypothesis, experimentation and evidence gathering, testing and
> replication, and finally, if the process has not falsified itself, to a
> scientific theory.   "Faith" in science is a calculation of probabilities that
> something is true, based on rigorous and tested evidence.
> 
>> 2. If the authority is an evolution theory that's still standing, then I'd
>> have to say that no one has disproved creationism/ID yet either.
> 
> In science, it is not the responsibility of someone making a claim to show
> evidence against an opposing claim, but rather it is to produce compelling
> evidence in support of their own claim.  Further, althought it sounds
> contradictory, in order for a hypothesis to move through the scientific
> process, there must be a scientific avenue by which in theory the hypothesis
> can be shown to be false.  So, for example, ID's presumption that because life
> is complex there must have been an intelligent designer (read God) cannot be
> science because such a presumption is not falsifiable (i.e., cannot be
> disproven).  
> 
>> 3. If either side says, "Because I'm the "illustrious grand poobah" and I
>> said so, well then, I'd have to laugh at their arrogance.
> 
> That is essentially what ID proponents are saying, because they attempt to
> introduce their religious faith into a scientific equation.  Their arrogance
> is part of their ignorance about science and what science can and cannot
> address.
> 
>> What is wrong with teaching both theories? Why not make a place in our
>> schools for students to be exposed to both?
> 
> Nothing wrong with teaching both (although I'd not say "both theories" because
> that implies both are scientific theories and ID is a religious proposition),
> as long as ID is taught as religion and evolution is taught as science.
> 
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