Come on---how many other buildings (and not just the museum) have been
looted? The city is very large. We need to take off the tunnel vision
here......and get the broader picture. At least the Americans were in there
trying to return the government to the people of Iraq. The war has been
VERY technological---with direct hits to ensure that the "people" were not
harmed. I think this "war" has been very positive on this aspect...and
opened up an entire new concept of war----where peoples' lives have been
saved in TOTAL respect for the Middle East culture and people. Yes, America
could have simply come in with the "war machine" and destroyed the country
and even dropped a nuke bomb that would surely have gotten' rid of the
problem leaders.
Nicholas, hospitals are also important, but they were also looted. Some
would say that they hold a touch more importance than a museum, when it
comes to saving human life. So, why were not the hospital protected?
Nicholas, is a museum more important than saving human life? Why are you
not on the bandwagon complaining about the looting of the hospitals, the
private businesses of the Iraqi people...and the many thousands of other
important building? But, then golly gee whiz....Nicholas, it is a war.
And in a "war" the people attacking are not in there trying to protect
everything, when they don't have control over it. Isn't that the
responsibility of that country. What did the leadership of Iraq at the
time do to protect its people, its culture and its heritate? Instead, that
government was stocking up weapons of war, using its people as shields,
murdering thousands of them over the years.
Indeed, the coalition forces have done much to preserve the buildings,
people and their culture. America has handled this with velvet gloves...to
ensure the protect this unique Middle Eastern culture.
Nicholas, much of the looting was done before the US soldiers could get in
and TOTALLY secure the area. It has not yet been achieved. The troops are
still doing their main job, i.e., getting the area secure. The first
concern is to get the pockets of resistance out, before policing can even
take place. Nicholas, how many buildings are their in Iraq? How big of
area and city is it? How can you even blame the US soldiers?
Me---I would have to cast some of the blame on the looters themselves who
are stealing the artifacts and everything else they can get their hands on.
There are MANY Iraqi people other there helping and wantign to stop the
looting--to protect their economy and culture.
In reality, it is impossible for the US troops to watch over every single
building....and just because we are "museum folk," we must be objective
here.....in war a museum is not the first aspect to protect. If you put on
your "history" hat and look back, there has always been looting when a
government is destroyed or toppled.
As one person implied, this is exactly what happens in a "war" when the
people are oppressed. They take out their revenge......and often do not
use common sense. They start stealing and looting---even their most
important treasures---from their museums. They even, as the media covered,
are taking the kitchen sink. I'm sure some of the looters are not aware
they are stealing items that are particular to their culture and thousands
of years of their history. These looters are not all antique dealers out
to get the artifacts. But people who are oppressed and see building free or
items for the taking---and they come in and take. Some are stealing for
revenge of the prior dictator, some because they want the items to sell to
buy food for their famlies, and other's to get furniture and items for their
own personal use.
Yes, it is sad.....but I'm a 14 year veteran...and don't blame our guys.
They have enough to handle now. And yes, Military Police will come in, but
the troops FIRST have to secure the areas/towns. It takes time. It is a
war. You end the hostile situations BEFORE you can send in the police.
The troops are not a "police" force....but fighting army/marines/navy/air
force personnel.
One must bear in mind that there is still much fighting going on...and who
is to say that a button may not be pushed by one of the 55 higher ups from
the old government with their "massive weapons of war" and all hell breaks
loose? There are still major battles up in Northern Iraq...and we still
don't know what happened to all the elite troops and guards or weapons.
American simply do not have the resources yet in place to put into force the
humanitarian aid, the police forces and the other protection that comes in
rebuilding after a war. We don't know if there is a large hidden army
divisions to the north. We don't know what is going to happen until the
area is secure...and that is for all of Iraq. You cannot commit your troops
to policing museums when the enemy is still out there....and you still have
your forces coming in.
True, they did preserve the water oil and other buildings. Yes, to me the
economy of the world is centered on the "oil wells" in Iraq...and securing
that building was important. There would be lots of debate and more support
from the entire world to protect the oil fields and connected
resources--before a museum. There is just so much you can do when a war is
going on. And you cannot pull troops to police an area, when their job is
fighting and getting rid of the bad guys.
Maybe, the United Nations should have been prepared and had a police force
and aid more available and ready to go...especially with some of the
countries who did not do much to help out their allies? (smiles). UN
forces are often the policing unit after a war. But, again, the war is not
over. Policing is a secondary action after the area is secured. Then,
too, didn't the UN not do their job and stop the negative aspects of the
Iraqi government?
Nicholas, I would disagree with your point that we destroyed Iraq's police
force. It is a war. In fact, I see that the US/Britains' are working with
local police forces to restore order. You also said that "many" of the
military were in the police force. I am sure of the thousands of troops,
"many" of them are not police officers--only "some".
And you blame the Americans? To even imply that the "looting of the
National Museum will not be forgiven us for many centuries, anyone in
American who does not understand that knows nothing about Middle Eastern
cultures." No, I think the people of Iraq and Middle Eastern cultures will
appreciate what the coalition forces have done to rid
their countries of a dictator who robed them. I think they will appreciate
their "freedom" and remember that more than the looting.
Looting comes with war. Which brings up another issue....why didn't the
National Museum do their job and protect their collection? What the heck
were they doing? I think more "pressing" issues will be remembered such as
how the oil fields were protected, how America/Britain removed a corrupt
government, and how the the Americans and their allies (except some I will
not mention) are turningthe government back to the Iraqi people. That is
the key element to deal with the Middle Eastern culture....to get rid of the
bad guys--then turn the government back to the people. Then NOT dominate
the country---and take charge (Nope we don't want Iraq as a colony or
another "state"!!)
This is what the Middle East cultures want....not the domination of the
Amerians after this is all over.
How we restore the government to the Iraqi people is the key element of how
the US/Britain will be judged. If weapons of mass destruction can be found,
it will verify that coalition troops were required and support Bush/Blairs
efforts to invade Iraq.
As an America, I could also say that the US needed to go in and "kick butt!"
because of some of the fractions of the Middle Eastern culture that hates
Americans, and what happened on 9/11/2001. When a "country" (the corrupt
leaders) puts their own greed over thier own culture and who enslaved its
own people. With a government murders its own people. Nicholas, no --- I
think the people of Iraq are going to understand that "good" was done and
democracy and rights were returned to the people of this wonderful and
unique culture.
I'm seeing in the news--that the Iraqi people appreciate what the US troops
are doing over there. We can jump to conclusions now.....but I think
things will be worked out. I do not hold the National Museum looting as
the key factor in determining if the Middle Eastern culture will hate
America.
In fact, if there is blame to be placed --- I would look at the museum
staff. For example, who opened the safe? In addition, if they (the museum
staff) knew a war was coming---why didn't they remove their artifacts and
secured them better? They were not thinking to keep their doors open for
admission during the war thinking troops would stop in for a visit or
purchase a gift from their gift shope were they?
It is so easy to cast stones...when preparation time was available and
warnings were given that troops were coming in. Knowing that looting would
be everywhere from your own people. Yes, I question the staff. Why didn't
the staff hire a security team? Put more bars up. Protect/move their
collection? Come on I watch the news..and I see store owners who talked
about took their items out and putting it in a secure place. Or simply
putting bars up that make it more difficult for looters to get in--so they
go to the easier sites to steal. Why didn't the museum? When a museum has
millions of dollars worth of artifacts-----and a war is coming ~~~ you don't
leave your doors open, artifacts in glass cases on display, and have staff
members to open the safe for the looters.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicholas Burlakoff" <[log in to unmask]>
> When you invade a country, when you destroy its police force, when you
> disarm the population that has traditionally been armed for
> self-protection-you bet that you are responsible. Remember, there are
> Military Police in our armed forces and the called-up reservists are
> American civilian police. The Americans saw fit to protect the Oil
Ministry,
> but not the Museums. At best, this shows lousy planning. Most likely it
> shows our abysmal value system towards Moslem cultures. The looting of the
> National Museum will not be forgiven us for many centuries, anyone in
> American who does not understand that knows nothing about Middle Eastern
> cultures.
> Nicholas Burlakoff
=========================================================
Important Subscriber Information:
The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes).
If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).
|
