Mr. Dill makes a good point about bureaucracy in government jobs and required qualifications. If I hadn't had an MA, I wouldn't have even been considered for my current position. In the U.S. Federal Government all of the same restrictions apply that Mr. Dill lists below, but additionally, the Director and/or Curator never even get to browse through the hundreds of applicants who apply for a position to evaluate whom would be right for the position. The applications go to a Federal personnel office (in our case St. Louis) and they choose the three "best" candidates whose applications fit the description. These three are then forwarded to the museum and the staff chooses from them. Because of the way the job descriptions are written in the U.S. government, a Federal employee without a degree *cannot* advance beyond a certain point. I know there hard working souls out there who do great work but are stuck at low pay levels because they don't have college or graduate degrees--even though they have 20 years of experience. A few years ago, I actually argued with someone in personnel about these practices and she told me that they really need these restrictions to keep from being overwhelmed with applications from unqualified people. It would take too much time and too many work hours to sort through all of them--and with the down-sizing of the government I don't think it will ever change. I think this is the reality of a large bureaucracy. >>> Dill, Christopher L <[log in to unmask]> - 1/8/97 3:53 AM >>> In response to Mr. Shuman's comment, I wouldn't know about laws in SOUTH Dakota - that's not where I'm from (sorry - hot button, that). As regards Mr. Shuman's and Ms. Wageman's responses, I must explain that the North Dakota law to which I referred requires that state agencies (which we are) give a preference in hiring to North Dakota citizens who are veterans of certain conflicts and who meet the minimum qualifications. That means if I advertise a position as requiring a BA with a preference for an MA, a vet with a BA and the proper service period can bump a non-vet, or anyone from out of state, who has a graduate degree or other, "better," qualifications. We have a lot more vets in North Dakota than museum workers or folks with graduate level museum-related degrees. We certainly DO require experience, and rate higher for it to the extent which we can. Writing job requirements and advertising is not always a simple matter, at least for public sector, governmental museums such as ours. Perhaps private, nonprofit museums can hire whomever they please, but I can't. We ask for transcripts to provide the applicant has the degree claimed, a writing sample done during the interview we do, references which we DO check, and a variety of other things to help us make the best possible choice when we hire. We have made mistakes, and have paid dearly for them over the years. Seems to me that the "self-learner" needs to prove to me that he/she is qualified. Taking the attitude that I'm at fault for requiring an advanced degree as a simple, quick way for me to winnow through the 75+ applicants we typically get for our curatorial positions is short sighted at best. As I recall, I got embroiled in this by simply advising that a graduate degree would be valuable. While one can't advance here without a degree, we do, have, and are supporting staff with both time and dollars to pursue graduate degrees so they CAN advance. I don't know why our situation irritates Ms. Wageman so much, but my advice stands as given - as my personal opinion, of course. Chris Dill - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - C. L. Dill, Museum Director State Historical Society of North Dakota 612 East Boulevard Bismarck ND 58505-0830 P: (701)328-2666 F: (701)328-3710 E: [log in to unmask] Visit our Web site at: http://www.state.nd.us/hist/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -