We have been working exclusively with middle and high school groups successfully for over 8 years. As was stated earlier, students in these age groups don't want to be told...they want to DO. Our programs are problem-solving oriented, not lecture formated the way tours are. We have the students work together in groups of 2-4, give them a "real" problem to solve in which they need to make observations and inferences. If the students perceive the exercise as challenging or empowering, they will not be a problem. The results here speak for themselves...in 8+ years of school programming anywhere from 60-150 programs annually, we have had only one discipline problem with a group as a whole...and that one happened because we were not alerted to the fact that they students had attention deficit disorders. I guess we've worked with over 25,000 kids in that span. A now dated study done by Dr. Mary Budd Rowe on the way that science is taught in this country offers valuable food for thought to museums working with this age group. In the study, she reported that for science teachers to cover all the new information found in an average science text book in one school year, they would need to present it at the rate of one new piece of info every two to three minutes. It also means that the student needs to hear it, and sythesize the information in ways that make sense to them (make connections) at the same rate. It is no wonder then, why many of these students react the way they do on museum "tours." While we offer them great visual aids, a tour usually is just a moving lecture with still MORE info bits for the students to handle. It's a case of information dumping with few opportunities for real application... If any one wants more information on our school programs, I'd be more than happy to share them. Contact me directly, to keep the list-line clear... Richard Efthim, Naturalist Center National Museum of Natural History Washington, DC 20560 (202)357-1503 fax:(202)786-2778 [log in to unmask]