I'd also like to speak up on behalf of HR departments, or at least on behalf of those of us who have jobs that aren't necessarily directly using our academic backgrounds (maybe I'm a little sensitive -- I may currently be an office manager, but that job title doesn't tell you anything about my education, experience, interests, or even all of my current job duties). I wouldn't be so quick to assume that someone in HR knows "nothing" about a museum or its various jobs -- for all you know, they needed a job, didn't have the luxury of relocating anywhere to find that perfect curatorial (or whatever) position, and were happy to find an actual paying job in a museum. I've never worked in HR, but given that it is their job to connect people with the right position, I'd like to think that yes, often they DO know a little bit about what goes on at their place of employment. The point about breaking beyond the old boy/old girl network is a very valid one, too; connections matter a great deal, but do we really want our field's positions only going to those who know the "right" people? And as someone who has also screened a great deal of resumes for a variety of positions, believe me, there are both a lot of incredibly qualified, talented people out there, as well as a large pool of people who are desperate for a job, any job, and given how overworked so many museum professionals are, it's a convenience to have someone else do the initial weeding of what could well be dozens -- even hundreds -- of applications. It might not be perfect, and undoubtedly many wonderful applicants don't make it to the top list, but that doesn't mean that the system is broken. And, of course, since most museums don't even have a dedicated HR person, let alone an entire department, for most job applications this is a moot point. You may well down the road find yourself wishing that your organization did have the luxury of having an HR person around! Cedar Phillips Office Manager Textile Center 3000 University Avenue SE Minneapolis, Minnesota 55414 612.436.0464 | fax: 612.436.0466 www.textilecentermn.org A national center for fiber art On Aug 20, 2013, at 2:10 PM, Matthew White wrote: > I'd like to speak up for the use of HR departments to screen applications, not because I think they are the bee's knees, but no one else is and I think they serve a valuable purpose. > > We all know the adage that who you know is more important than what you know and a few of the responses to this thread have reinforced this idea and offered ways around the HR department. There is nothing INHERENTLY wrong with using networks and reputations to help people find work, or for institutions to find good applicants. But when this becomes standard practice across an institution or a profession it can systemically exclude whole classes of people from consideration, not because the person doing the hiring is biased for or against a type of person (although that still happens) but because forming professional networks often requires participation in institutions that have historically kept people out due to race and other factors. And lets be honest, the museum profession is hardly a poster child for diversity. (THe original poster talked about old days. Do you mean back when photos were attached to resumes and potential employers could screen applications based upon personal appearance? No thanks) > > Using HR departments as the first line of application helps control this to some extent. It puts everyone on the same footing, whether you know the right people or not, and ranks people based on objective criteria. There is still plenty of time for dropping a name or having someone make a call, but I really don't have a problem if some museums, especially the larger ones, use HR departments to try to control some of the abuses that can occur when hiring is left to the personal peccadilloes of one or two people. > > And of course this goes triple for museums that are run by a government at whatever level. In the US there is a deep history of government jobs going to political appointees as a system of spoils and machine politics. While most government museums were created after the Civil Service reforms, this practice still happens in the museum world, though rarely. As both a museum professional and a tax payer, I want those jobs to go to the best qualified person and not a friend or relative of a politician. (We all know it happens and it's awful all the way around). In these cases HR departments, and sometimes larger offices like the OPM at the federal level, are a must. The potential for abuse is too real. > > Also, as an employer who has used HR departments to help hire it is useful to have the HR people take out the lowest ranked resumes. I have hired a lot of different people and my experience is that easily about a quarter to a third of all applicants for any given opening don't even remotely qualify for the job. But you have to read them to find out which is which. For positions that elicit hundreds of resumes I am more than happy to have HR professionals weed out the bottom third so I can spend my time on the "real" applications. (Of course, it also makes the job more boring. Some of the biggest laughs I have had on the job are from reading resumes and cover letters of that bottom third. You wouldn't believe what some people put in those things. I once had a portfolio of bunny drawings attached to a handwritten resume.) > > Of course it is far from a perfect system and there are tricks to make it work for you, like ANY system. Absolutely. It is frustrating when the only communication you have with a potential employer is through computer generated emails and mostly say "Don't email us, we'll email you." it can be especially frustrating, for me anyway, when applying through some online portal and there is no one to help you navigate this clunky, proprietary system. (I JUST UPLOADED MY RESUME!! Why are you making me retype the whole thing into tiny fields?!?! Why make me do both? Arrrrrrrgh). > > But there is no perfect system in hiring people. There isn't. You may think one works better because it works for you. (and good for you, congratulations on the new job) But there are real dangers to relying too much on who an applicant knows, and I think the HR system is one good way for some institutions to try to ameliorate some of the abuses and deleterious long term effects of using old boy/girl networks for hiring. > > Have a nice day everyone and good luck on your job searches. > > Matthew White > > On Aug 20, 2013, at 2:01 PM, "Lamboley, Megan" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> I second this. I applied to a position twice, and never got a call back. Then I had a colleague mention my name to the hiring team, and was called for an interview pretty quickly after that. I am not sure my other two applications ever reached the appropriate people. >> >> Keep Trying! >> Megan >> >> From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Heather Marie Wells >> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 1:34 PM >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] Department of Human Resources >> >> >> Ashley, >> >> This is where you need to work your network and connections. It pays to be known in the area or by a mutual colleague so they can help alert the appropriate person to be on the look-out for your application. There have been a number of times that I only got through HR because the hiring person knew for one reason or another to ask HR for my application. >> >> I hope it helps, >> Heather Marie >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Ashley Watson <[log in to unmask]> >> Reply-To: Museum discussion list <[log in to unmask]> >> Date: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 12:21 PM >> To: Museum discussion list <[log in to unmask]> >> Subject: [MUSEUM-L] Department of Human Resources >> >> Hello all, >> As I am continuing my frustrating job search since I graduated with M.A. in Museum Studies from Syracuse University in May 2012, one interesting detail that have come to my attention in my job search and analyzing why the actual evaluation of the potential applicants is flawed. Not just for the museums, but also for many fields, the department of human resources is the FIRST WALL in your path to a potential call up for an interview for any job you apply for. From my observations, the staff in that department tend to KNOW very little to absolutely NOTHING about any specific museum job and they are armed with the power to screen those?? According to my friends from the old days, they said it used to go straight to the APPROPRIATE person in the department that the job opening was created in, with the HIRING/FIRING power. I think that department of human resources is what it really hurt many of the qualified applicants like us here. Any thoughts on this? No, I am not giving up on my job search, I just need to bypass that wall by continuing to build on my professional connections with some important museum professionals armed with the power. >> >> Thanks, >> Ashley Watson >> Exhibits/Collections Intern >> Haggin Museum >> Stockton, CA >> >> To unsubscribe from the MUSEUM-L list, click the following link: >> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-HOME.exe?SUBED1=MUSEUM-L&A=1 >> >> >> To unsubscribe from the MUSEUM-L list, click the following link: >> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-HOME.exe?SUBED1=MUSEUM-L&A=1 >> >> >> To unsubscribe from the MUSEUM-L list, click the following link: >> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-HOME.exe?SUBED1=MUSEUM-L&A=1 >> > > > To unsubscribe from the MUSEUM-L list, click the following link: > http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-HOME.exe?SUBED1=MUSEUM-L&A=1 > ========================================================= Important Subscriber Information: The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . 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