Yes Cindy that is exactly what I meant.  I don't know I am a man.  I do know of men that have been told they will be fired because he had to pick up his child at day care everday at lunch but it took him just more then 1 hour to pick up his child and take it home.  They said he was not longer allowed to be late from lunch even though we are a bunch or crazy artist and he always worked the extra time at the backend of the day.  So You can be hostle towards men all you want and it may be the rare occasion.   I also am aware of studies that show the difference in Married VS single workers let alone Parents vs single workers and their productions.   Companies are in the business of making money.   Should they treat people like that, NO.  Do they yes.   Do I think its fare that I pay different car insurance then a woman.  Yes but they have actuary tables with Proof that I might be a higher risks.  I have not had a ticket or accident in 20 years but my insurance is still higher then a female friend who has the same car.  That sounds like discrimination to me.   Its not they have proof that I am more likely to do something they have proof that men my age with my car tend to do something.  
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/412574.stm  READ THAT.    Now me personally I prefer to hire woman over men because I am one dis organized man and woman tend to be more organized.   I multitaks like a mad man but not effienctly.  I have found that woman tend to beable to keep up with my half done zillions things at once working method.  So I hire women. ( I am sure angie can attest to my scatered super ADD brain) I wish we lived in a fair soceity or even world.  We don't and the likely hood that it will become fair is slim to none.  I do know this.  Im my little world when I hire someone to do a job the job comes before everything else.  Why because if that job gets screwed up then everyone I work with is out of work and then NO ONE has a job.  One person could potentially cost 10-15 people their jobs.   Now I don't care how it gets done.  If you can phone it in from thailand while surfing then more power to you and I will be jealous.  I think studies like that one in that BBC article scares people.  I found another arcticle that says woman are sick more (miss more work) is because men treak them like crap at work.  So then you take that into accound.   I don't know.   What I do know is this.  

I do know men that have been discriminated agaist because of children.  and I know that there are studies that show men work more hours and days then woman.  Doesn't mean anything to me because I prefer to work with woman in many case then men.  My mother worked more hours then any 2 men she worked with so what ever.  but you don't know that the MAN was given the promotion.  You only know that the PERSON with the older children was given the promotion.  Any other conclusion besides that is YOU DISCRIMINATING AGAINST MEN.

On 1/10/08, Cindy Boyer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Randy, did you mean to say if the person who got the opportunity was a woman with older children, (instead of a man?)  and the woman with younger children was passed over?

 

Yes, that would still be discrimination, It makes no difference who gets the promotion. It makes a difference if you are offered the opportunity. It's discrimination because there is not equal opportunity to prove yourself for the promotion (or job.) The discrimination comes in when the person is passed over for a situation unrelated to the job (status of children or marriage), based on assumption.

 

Let's use an extreme example: If there is a job promotion available that requires working midnight until 8 am. An employer cannot assume you do not get a chance at that job because you have to get your kids up for school at 7 am. That is not their call. The mother might arrange for a caregiver to get the kids up and out.

 

But it is the employers call if a mother (or father!) takes the promotion, and then cannot meet the requirements of the job because sh/he need to go home and take the kids to school. They are not able to perform the job responsibilities.

 

Julia's right – they were lucky she did not pursue legal action.

 

Cindy Boyer

Director of Museums and Education

The Landmark Society of Western New York

133 S. Fitzhugh St.

Rochester NY  14608

(585) 546-7029 ext. 12

[log in to unmask]

www.landmarksociety.org

 

Our mission is to discover, protect and revitalize the architectural and related cultural heritage of the Rochester region, and to educate and inform our community about that heritage . 

 

1937-2007 -  Landmark Society's 70th Anniversary!

 

From: Museum discussion list [mailto: [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jill Chancey
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:56 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] Maternity Leave Policy Question

 

Show me the occasion upon which a man has been discriminated against at his workplace for being a parent, and I'll give you a dollar.  Sure, any discrimination based on parental (or non-) status is unfair, and should be illegal.  In reality it's women who lose out for being parents, not men. 

Jill R. Chancey, PhD
Curator
Lauren Rogers Museum of Art
PO Box 1108
Laurel, MS 39441-1108

www.LRMA.org
[log in to unmask]



Randy Little wrote:

Just a quick question.  What if all the things where the same but instead of the other person being a man that other person was the SAME EXACT  situation but a woman?   Would it be discrimination then? I don't know the answer I just pose the question.

r.

On Jan 10, 2008 10:31 AM, Julia Moore <[log in to unmask] > wrote:

I was "maternally profiled" in a previous museum(-like) job—an internal promotion was not offered to me (nor was I even told that I was being considered for the opportunity) solely because I had young children at the time.  I wouldn't have even known about the discrimination had it not been explained to me very carefully that another person, a male with older children, was being offered the job "because your family still needs you."  They thought that by explaining it, it would forestall my having a fit about this other person being advanced ahead of me; instead, it created for me a shadow of resentment that colored the rest of my time there, and they are lucky I didn't pursue legal action.

 

Julia Muney Moore

Public Art Administrator

Blackburn Architects, Indianapolis, IN

(317) 875-5500 x219

  

 

 

From: Museum discussion list [mailto: [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Alicia Herman
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:03 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] Maternity Leave Policy Question

 

I encourage you to think about maternal profiling and discrimination when drafting a policy.  Options you and other employees may feel blessed to have included in your policy could be flex time, being able to work part-time at home, and other benifits that support being a working mother.  The information below highlights some of the key issues and research with includes an outstounding finding that mothers are 79% less likely to be hired than non-mothers with equal resumes and job experiences (see below).  Congratulations on your pregnancy and being a pioneer working mother director for your institution.

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