Pam,
How can you have it both ways? Believe in Evolution, but then have a strong commitment to your god and priest?
Both theories or belief systems states the other is wrong -- is there a comprise? Just wondering.
Yes, "environments and habitats are changing" but that does not prove evolution. Then there is extinction of species,
but that does not prove evolution -- but the opposite, that life dies out not advances. That unknow changes and circumstances can wipe out entire species or life form, and we know that to have happened once or many, many
times over the process of "time." That would mean the evolutionary process would have to start all over again. It
is not a perfect world. In fact, this entire thing we call "life" --- is actually a process of death.
And right -- "Homo habilis (the 'tool maker') survived virtually unchanged (both their physical make up as well as their tool kit) for over a million years." Therefore, Homo habilis did not advance, change or instantly become a higher form of man..they died off, became extinct, are no more.
And what do you mean by, our "species of homo still exhibit 'primitive' characteristics"? Because we all do not
have stubby toes make no difference, we (Homo sapiens) are still all human beings. Though some of us are going
bald, getting gray, some have blond hair (or do they??), some like pizza, and others veggies, some eat with a fork
and spoons, and others with hands. Some are left handed and others are right. Some people are starving while others live in 40 room mansions. That does not mean we are evolving, but simply growth within a species. We are still -- man and woman -- people. We are not advancing to another form of creature.
In fact, evidence shows that we (mankind) may even end up destorying ourselves, as well as this world and our own "primitive" actions of war, greed, domination and dislikes of others who have differences (including theories and
concepts such as science vs. religion or evolution vs. creationism.
How many wars have been fault because of religious differences, cultural differences? In the end, man will wipe
himself off the planet earth because they do not like others who differ or disagree with them.
Look at the wars all because of "religious" differences. Look what Hilter did to the Jewish people. Look with we did in American to the African Americans, to the Native Americans...we have about destroyed entire races because we hate things that are different from us. In fact, our own actions against the enviornment and weapons (war, pollutions, diseases, etc.).
Look at the hate in the centuries of world history? The slaughter of the Christians by the Romans, the Holy Wars,
Hitler's hate for the Jews, against gays, etc. The hate against the Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, the Catholics vs. the Protestants, the strife in the Middle East based upon religious beliefs and cultures that have beenfighting each other for centuries, and on and on. You start naming the hate, the contention, the turmoil is this world...and we are not going to ADVANCE or EVOLVE -- we are going to simply wipe out our existence. Nope, I vote that we will not advance, nor have I seen one solid fact that any other life form advanced into a new and different species. They all became extinct, and again museums document this very well in their exhibits and collections.
Peace!
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela Silvestri<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] Word Game Creation
Well I have to say that you are Buzz! Wrong! about what evolution is John. This type of lineal thinking is quite common and is why so many people do not really understand evolution. There is no single 'line' that leads from 'creatures' to 'man' (a.k.a. homo sapien sapiens). In fact, many species of homo co-existed during some periods in time and some of these 'creatures' were fully evolved and well-adapted to their environment.
Homo habilis (the 'tool maker') survived virtually unchanged (both their physical make up as well as their tool kit) for over a million years. Their cranial capacity and brain size...and other characteristics are distinct from our own and yet there are some similarities to our own species...and we didn't co-exist with them so we really can't say that we're more 'evolved' than they were during their time. Even if we can prove that we are more 'intelligent' now, at that point in time (about 1.6-2.2 million years B.P. [before present]) they were very well adapted to their environment...one that our species may well not have survived if put back into that time. They didn't change much during their million years of existence for a reason.
Our species of homo still exhibit 'primitive' characteristics. There's your 'solid' proof right there...we don't even have to look at fossils for that. Some of us have shoulders that allow us to brachiate, some of us don't. Some of us have little stubby toes, some of us don't. Well I have little stubby toes with a very small 'little toe'...whereas my son's toes are nearly as long as my fingers! I joke with him and refer to them as his "primitive toes". These varying traits are actually beneficial to our species. And I really have to say, that I take offense if your line of thinking would consider my son's physical traits to be compared to those of some 'creature's'
The interpretation of the Bible in the Creation Museum is very one-sided! One way to understand of this (and without using lineal thinking) is to study and understand how people (i.e., our species) during different times in history and prehistory and the varying cultures all over the world -explained and tried to understand artifacts (cultural material, that we now know was made by earlier populations of our species...and those artifacts that were made by other species of homo) and also fossils.
Do you think everyone in our country today and cultures in other parts of the world today really care to give the Creationist theory or evolution a second thought? Do poor people who are struggling, people who are starving and dying in 3rd world countries and elsewhere are giving a single thought to evolution or creationist theory? NO! All the discussions on this list and...well museums in general for that matter are of our (i.e., predominantly white, middle class and on up) creation and current concern.
Ok and I have to say also, that your belief that the existence of 'man' is due to other species/creatures being 'killed off' along the 'chain' by other species/creatures is also inaccurate. That just ain't how it happened. So how would you explain the extinction (or even the proliferation) of other animal species throughout time? Do you not believe that animal/insect species that are on the endangered list are endangered of becoming extinct? Are we the only species among all of the animals on this planet -of all the other species of homo and other species of animals that are not subject to evolution or complete extinction?
Evolution is occurring as I write and just because we cannot always see and understand micro-evolutionary changes that are occurring...doesn't mean that they are not happening right now. Environments and habitats are changing...they are in a constant state of flux. And again, we can't always 'see' this but it has been scientifically proven and is happening.
Well talk about bias...it's seems as though the many people I know who have studied human evolution are still religious/spiritual people (and yes, I do believe in God)...but people I know who are religious and haven't studied evolution are more apt to have doubts or totally be against it.
From what I've read about and photos and interpretive signs I've seen from the 'Creationist Museum'...I'd have to call this interpretation...not a belief system or a theory...but a fairytale (and a potentially dangerous one at that). And obviously it is one that 'exhibits' at it's 'best', speciesism and at it's 'worst', racism.
If either the former and especially the latter be true...that we should (we better!) speak out about this, question it, etc. Using and/or creating a museum to 'promote' or even hint at white supremacy is just wrong!
Pam
In a message dated 6/16/2007 7:43:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
Buzz! Wrong!
There is no solid proof that creatures involved up to man. Similiaries of different animals or life form
does not prove evolution. Again these species who are to a supposed chain up to man died or
killed off by a stronger or different species/creature. It is all theories hanging upon the thread of "belief". And the "theories" has changed as new discoveres come into focus.
Again, both (evolution and creation concepts) are totally upon faith and belief.
There is nothing wrong with a musuem using exhibits to be created to tell the story of either. Such
prejudice, one-sided thinking is just like the days of cabinets of curosity, when only certain people
could view museums. Now evolutionist are telling us what is suppoed to be the act of creation,
with only their thinking and everyone else is wrong. That is sheer stupidty, when we in the museum
world create exhibits for the public as you said for enjoyment and entertainment --as long as it
fits such shallow and controlled thinking.
People who want to see the creationalist museum, let them go to it. No big deal. No offense,
but we need not wet our pants becasie twp different theories or belief systems are out there. Let
the public decide what they want to see and believe. That is what a museum is about -- free
flowing exhibits, not controlled by bias exhibitors, directors or one-side museum professionals.
John
Pamela Silvestri, Seasonal State Parks Interpretive Guide
Northeast States Civilian Conservation Corps Museum
Shenipsit State Forest Headquarters
166 Chestnut Hill Road
Stafford Springs, Connecticut 06076
Telephone: (860) 684-3430
e-mail: [log in to unmask] or
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See what's free at AOL.com<http://www.aol.com/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>.
========================================================= Important Subscriber Information:
The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes).
If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).
=========================================================
Important Subscriber Information:
The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes).
If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).