The impression I received from the original Kinko's Goth employee post was that poor service and a disrespectful manner were attributed to a poor work ethic and habits in general. The person's appearance was of little consequence, but used to relate to an attitude that was discourteous along with the less than adequate service. Quite the adverse of what is expected from someone in customer service. Low pay is not a justification for poor service. A low wage worker who is not working at 100% most times is a person who has a poor work ethic. We all have bad days and times when we're not as productive, etc., as usual but the Kinko's employee exhibited several that can't be attributed to having just a bad day. The things she was doing were more indicative of a pattern of behaviors and attitudes, etc. I also don't believe it is fair to compare the judgement of one's adornments and dress with that of someone's skin color in the very least. No person is born with piercings and tattoos. I for one, associate piercings and tattoos with pain. That's what I experience when I see these. I did not even get my ears pierced until I was 27 (didn't even own a pair of high heels until I was 20). Personally, I'm a big fan of pain avoidance. But believe it or not, I did go Goth in 1981. Goths have been around for quite some time and alternative appearances in general and issues related to them are hardly anything new. If you choose to change your natural appearance, you shouldn't expect others to be forced to like how you look, expect it to be pleasing to them, not distracting and along with that....some people are naturally not going to be so accepting and non-judgmental. We do have every 'right' to judge people because it is innate. Our initial perceptions are based on our senses and knowledge base after which in time we can learn to substantiate this, or change it. It was obvious in the original post that it was not the employees' manner of dress alone or at all even that accounted for the poor service. It was the attitude, the gum chewing, the indifference, lack of respect -the poor quality of customer service in general. I was goth for only a day back in 1981 for a show I was in. As with all shows I performed in - I dedicated a day to spend out in public 'in character'. For my goth character, I used public transportation and visited two pubs in he city. These puns were not places where punk/goth people would frequent. At the 1st place, I acted differently according to the fact that I looked different. I didn't make any new friends there. At the 2nd pub (just two doors down) I, still in costume, acted like myself. I had more people being friendly towards me there. When I look at the goth photo of myself...my hair with one side longer than the other, heavy make-up, black lip liner and a chainlink fence around my neck (I'm exaggerating, of course it was just a bold, gold chain) I can't imagine, as much as I liked it, how I may have kept up that appearance to the present day. I can only imagine what it would have been like to have taken the time and expense with the make-up and hair for all those years. Especially seeing that my present day job is outdoorsy...and I love the fact that I don't have to wear make-up and fuss with my hair. When I look at that photo of me, I can't picture myself looking like that and doing what I'm doing today. BTW the 1st tattoo I ever saw on a woman was in the late 70's...a woman in her 60's who had been a flapper -a red heart with an arrow through it on her calf. I thought it was the coolest thing. I loved seeing tattoos on people until I learned of how they were done (ouch). Since I mentioned Flappers...among themselves and for non-flappers alike, certain attitudes and behaviors went along with being a flapper. If you didn't drink, smoke, dance, etc., but dressed like a flapper...you weren't really a flapper. Women didn't just dress like a flapper and expect to not be treated as a flapper. Let's be real here. Changing one's appearance, looking differently by choice, etc., is likely to evoke a response (either positive or negative). Some people like negative attention too. And we know that alternative appearance is more apt to be related to alternative culture. If that alternative culture has some negative aspects associated with it - of course people are going to make judgements. If you choose to alter your appearance to conform to a particular culture, you are going to be associated with it unless your behavior, etc., shows/proves otherwise. Pam In a message dated 10/3/2006 1:07:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes: Hello, I'm going to weigh in here, because the subject is near and dear to my heart, as a pierced person, and also as a younger person just beginning my career and hoping to stay pierced as I move through it. in regards to the quality of service of the Kinko's employee, the first thing that popped into my mind is, how much is this girl, or any employee there, getting paid? Probably not that much. Also, chances are, the girl who waited on you did not have anything to do with the mistake in your order. My guess is someone who worked the night before messed up and she was finishing the transaction. Yes, we are judged. Everyday. But that doesn't give us the right to form opinions about someone's character or quality because of the way they look. In that sense, judging a person by the way their hair is cut, the piercings they have, or what they wear, is akin, in a small way, to judging a person by the color of their skin. It is a judgment and an assessment of them as a human based on the way they look. I agree that we, as professionals, and usually as humans, are judged by the way that we look, how we talk, our grammar, all of that. But that doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean that we shouldn't struggle to not judge people by the way they look. I think that this is a really grey area, and one that we could argue over and over. But what makes something appropriate? Just because you work in an office downtown, does that mean you should dress in a suit? Convention says yes, but who is to say that convention is right? The thing I try to remember about those blessed people who work in the service industry, is that they work hard for, usually, less than optimal pay. I try to remember that they might have had a hard day, or just dealt with a difficult customer. I'm not saying that you should be happy with substandard service, with your picture or the girl's attitude. But, in my opinion, stereotyping her as 'goth girl' and taking issue with her appearance was inappropriate and probably had nothing to do with the quality of service. Just my opinion, leah durand ========================================================= Important Subscriber Information: The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes). If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).