Veronica Lane

I have tried to reply to your email but can not get through. You mentioned museum-l and childmus so I am sending this reply to the list. let me know when you get it.

Bill Greaves

 

 

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From: "William Morgan Greaves" <[log in to unmask]>

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Subject: interactive garden

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:15:11 -0400

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Original Message

>September 16, 2006

 

>Mr. Graves

>I visited Virginia Beach this past week with two other families and after several days of >getting cooked on the beach, we decided to visit some of the local attractions. One of >them was the Norfolk Botanical Gardens that all the adults wanted to see. We thought it >would be a problem with all of our kids (7 total) as they ranged in ages of 2 to 13 years >old. We had to get them to agree that if they were really good for us (the parents) we >would go to an attraction of their choice later in the week. We toured the main botanical >garden building, saw several films about the garden and then took the tram around the >garden to familiarize ourselves with what was available. At the fourth stop the kids saw >the world of wonders children's garden and that did it. For the next 4 hours they literally >hovered from one exhibit country to another. They even went to your new pavilion, >class room building, and enjoyed the various art classes and exterior amphitheatre >performances. Needless to say we could not keep them out of all the different water >features and we finally decided to just let them get wet. After all we did come to the >beach to get wet.

> 

>We had only two problems with that trip. The first one was we (adults) never did get to >see the other 30 stops to view the gardens and secondly when it was time to leave we >had our hands full of screaming kids. They did not want to leave. Before we left I did >ask for information on who worked on this garden and one of the staff members gave >me your name, email address and website. I do remember seeing some of your post on >museum-l and one of the parents apparently knew you from one of the children's >museum functions. Oh buy the way I could not get your web site to work. I may have >copied the address wrong.

> 

>My real quest here is to get some basic information. I am on the board of our local >historical museum and for years we have been struggling with declining attendance.  I >have said for years that we do not get families involved as our museum is a look but >don’t touch museum. Our museum has a little land but lots of flat roof areas and I have >heard some museums have developed roof top gardens. Can you give me some basic >information on the following?

1. How much land is needed for exterior areas? What is the rule of thumb if any? What is considered too small?
2. We have a major renovation coming up. Can a exterior space take over for the museum during the closing and renovation of the existing building.
3. How can roofs be developed for a fun garden like the Norfolk one?
4. How much does it cost to do something like this to make a portion of a museum more family friendly? 

> 

>There must have been a hundred families in the children's garden and I need to show >our museum board that something like this can revive our museum and get more >families to come.

> 

>Thanks

>Veronica Lane

>please reply to:

> [log in to unmask]

 

Hi Veronica.

 

Thanks for the info from your families on the Children's Garden. It was a two and a half year fun filled project and I'm glad you all enjoyed it so much. That is what it is all about. Getting families involved, having fun and at the same time learning something.

 

I will try to answer some of your questions but they might be lengthy as there are so many variables to consider.

1. How much land is needed for exterior areas? What is the rule of thumb if any? What is considered too small?

When considering exterior areas there is only one rule of thumb that I have always used. "Inside outside minimum double/triple". By our very nature what seams to feel comfortable on interior spaces need to be a minimum of double to triple the same size when applied to the exterior. If you want to build an exterior deck and stand in a 12 x 12 interior room that feels comfortable then the same size space will seem very small and cramped outside. With no walls or ceilings as a relationship of space the wide outdoors will make a 12 x 12 space feel cramped and restricted. This is how the open planned office partition system got developed such that if you were sitting in your 8x8 cubicle (4 to 5 foot high) and stood up you do not feel as cramped because your cubicle is one of many parts. An 8x8 full height office on the other hand will always seem claustrophobic to many because the space moves in on you.

When we design children's museums we all use this principal. Individual interior exhibit areas might be small but when you look up and over the entire museum you see other exhibit areas that are open to the min body of space defined by exterior walls. These spaces do not seem as small. On the other hand if we took the exact same indoor exhibits (multiple) areas and moved them outside with no walls then even these exhibit areas would just feel much small and cramped as there is no boundary to get scale from. Human scale is a definitive item that can make or break a space. The 3.5 acre children's garden can well handle the hundred or so families but move that into a building and space, scale, sound and lighting is absolutely crucial.

The amount of space that you will need will dependent upon exactly what you want to do. I could not say at this time what is needed without more information.

 

2. We have a major building renovation coming up. Can a exterior space take over for the museum during the closing and renovation of the existing building.

 

Yes. The "HabiTot" Children's Museum in Berkley California is taking this approach to handle the museum closing moving syndrome. If they are successful in getting the building and property then we have develop an outside exhibit areas that will be built as phase one. This way when it is completed the families can enjoy this outside exhibit area while we either tare down the existing building and build a new one, move their existing exhibitry into the existing building or redesign the entire interior exhibitry/building. It should be noted that Berkley does have wonderful weather and can use this outside space for most of the year.

 

3. How can roofs be developed for a fun garden like the Norfolk one?

 

I have two perfect examples here to try and answer this question. First there are several codes here that apply. Three of the most critical areas are: First, The roof must be designed for human occupancy loads. Second the roof must have sufficient fire egress (stairs, ramps etc.)  to handle the amount of people in case of emergencies and third you must be able to get handicapped people to the roof (elevator).

 Most roofs are designed to support their own dead weight plus (usually) 20 pounds additional load. Assembly spaces (museums) must be designed for their own dead weight and 120 pounds per square foot (people-fixture) loads. When you get over 50 people (a space of 750 Square foot space @ 15 SF per person equals 50 people) you must have two fire exits. To comply with ADA you will need a handicap elevator.

 

First case in point. The "Imagine" Children's Museum in Everett Washington was and old bank. It was a lot to lot building (building built up all lot lines-no extra site space). It had full rooftop parking designed for 130 pounds per square foot. It had one stair and one very small elevator to get people from their cars to the main floor banking. We had to add another fire stair and add a larger handicap elevator. We needed to get approval to reduce the amount of cars parked on the roof. (City code issue) prepare the roof for kids and exhibits (fall zone material). At very little cost we ended up with about 11,000 SF of exterior exhibits on the roof.

Second case point: I am working on another children's museum in downtown Harrisonburg Virginia. It is a 30,000 GSF old Leggett's department store building (again built lot to lo)t but no parking on site. They want to look at the cost of developing a roof top exhibit area. We had to estimate the cost to completely take off the roof, roof support structure and provide all new flooring/deck to support 120 PSF roof load. Extend both existing stairs and elevator to the roof deck. Provide walking deck with fall zone material and extend the roof parapet to a minimum 50" AFF. It will cost them about $645,000 to just prepare the roof for people traffic and exhibits. Now when you look at this as $56.78 a square foot to build (not counting exhibits) it is really fairly cheap space so it is within reason to expand to the roof. There overall budget is where it hurts as they will need to raise more money up front and they will need to decide now. You do not want to take the entire roof off any building when it is occupied. Especially after a major renovation when there is so much more to get wet. Do it as part of the renovation.

 

4. How much does it cost to do something like this to make a portion of a museum more family friendly?

 

I am not sure just what you are asking for here. If you are referring to exterior interactive exhibit space the rule of thumb is $1,250,000 per acre. Exterior exhibits cost about 50% more then interior exhibits because they must be designed to whether the elements. In case of the children's garden the plant material was a big ticket item. After all in this case it is a garden first and interactivity second. If you are talking about exhibits in general they can range from $200 SF up. The higher the price the better quality and amount of interactivity.

 

Hope this answers some of your basic questions.

 

You were right. I checked with my web host and some of their servers were down. You might have tried when it as off line. The site is www.architectsindesign.com

The Imagine, HabiTot and World of Wonders Children's Garden are all on line. The Harrisonburg Children's Museum is not on the server yet as we are not trough with the master plan yet.

 

Bill Greaves

 

 

William M. Greaves

Architects iN Design

1232 Wivenhoe Court

Virginia Beach, Virginia 23454

757-496-6489