I, too, am glad that this is a topic today .. especially since it is the Labor Day weekend. Many Americans have forgotten, probably because of intentional lack of reminder from our society/government, that this day is actually about LABOR -- the people who work. What makes us great is being able to interpret ourselves, as museum professionals. It is very difficult to examine anything with critical distance when we are inside it. I felt scared about two things in the original post. First the issue of salary, and second, the comment that younger museum professionals are more "malleable." Also, I will put it right out in front that I will turn 29 next month. Salary: The longer we, as a group, continue to accept low salaries, the longer this will be reflected in salary surveys and the longer the same sad pay rate will be offered to us as applicants. We, alone, are empowered to demand more money, better benefits and a living wage. Historically, women have been the employees at historic sites, women who's husbands had good jobs .. and the rest of the stereotype. The field really became "professional" at a time when museum boards were made up of white community leaders with money, the same type of people who would have bought into and supported that stereotype of the income double standard. This is an historic problem, and like the field in general, some of us can fall into the trap of living in the past, rather than just interpreting it. Younger professionals are malleable: OOOOOOHHHH! I am so irritated by that. It really sends me right back to being a teenager and thinking "I will not be like you, so don't even try to make me!" I have encountered this as well along my job application, internship, volunteer process. This is also a plague of the field, particularly of history museum, which is my experience -- I don't know what the art people are doing. I have encountered the same problem as listed above -- operating in the past instead of interpreting the past. Some insituttions have a problem with the boundary between thier mission and the ways they carry out that mission. For argument's sake, I like to work with the generalization that field became professionalized in the 1970s with bi-centennial fever. So right now, about 30 years later, the whole field is turning over and a lot of institutions are suffering from founders syndrome -- board and staff alike. Many institutions I have been to, consulted at, or whose staff I have encountered at conferences, are the founders of their institutions and bless their souls, did a good job at the time. However, they need to LET GO! I think trying to mold new employees into the practices and mindsets -- the traditions -- of current staff and museum programming/ways of doing things, prevents the institution from growing. We preserve and interpret the past, not the staff or the institution -- these things must grow and change for the institution to survive. Sometimes old staff and board, particularly founders, become like millstones around the necks of their institutions and eventually help them drown rather that stay afloat, not to mention progress forward. Frankly, I would turn down any job flat if I got even the slightest whiff that I was expected to be a "good soldier." Sometimes, when institutions don't want to hire people new to the field, or young people with new ideas, they are truly afraid that they will have to change, or that they might have to admit that there are better ways of doing things than what they are accustomed to. Apple-cart tippers, like myself, are sometimes unwelcome in more traditional institutions. However, I have discovered that I can be proud of my point of view and succeed in the right place. Also, although another topic entirely, not only is the museum field flooded with newly graduating professionals, it is also flooded with more museums than our government insitutions, granting agencies, foundations, donors, members and visitors could ever support! Good luck to all who are new to the field, and I wish courage and willingness to change to everyone (including myself) who is already in it! Erin. Erin Elizabeth Crissman Curator Historic Cherry Hill 523 1/2 South Pearl St. Albany, NY 12202 p.518.434.4791 f.518.434.4806 [log in to unmask] [Erin Crissman] -----Original Message----- From: Gayle "Indigo Nights" [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:42 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Discussion Concerning Potential Age Discrimination in Museum Hiring I'm forwarding this for a member who wishes to remain anonymous. Please direct all dialgoue to the list unless you need cover of anonymity, in which case, send your answers to me, and I will excise your personal info and forward it to the person for whom I am facilitating this dialogue. Thank you: I earned my museum-related graduate degree after age 50, following an early career in media and years of volunteer and paid work in small museums, and for AAM and other organizations--while my children were young. With over ten years of small museum experience--in every capacity, a solid degree from a respected university, and a super resume--I've applied to over 100 museum jobs, got three (seemingly great) interviews at historic houses--after preparing in all ways--and haven't been hired. The director at one historic house, who spent the summer interviewing, told me I was one of the top candidates--but he wasn't hiring until he found the "perfect" person. Another large history museum invited me to apply for a special job--then decided to do "something else with the position" before they announced layoffs and a budget cut. I applied for a curator's job at an historic site, for which I was very well qualified. A few weeks passed, so I followed up with a phone call to the local government which was administrator for the site. The HR person on the other end said something close to: "Oh, we held a special orientation to show the young applicants how to get jobs with us, and hired someone from that group." Her superior took the call immediately and tried to find a "way out" of her staffer's obvious error. Then, while doing research on an object in a world-famous museum, I overheard a curator discussing a job candidate on the phone: "She's just too old, but don't you think that (so-and-so) is just right for the job?" After submitting several unsuccessful applications for state and federal jobs, I refused to enter my date of birth or date of high school graduation, realizing how that information could be used as a pre-filter for age. When I complained to government EEO officials, they agreed with my assertion! In casual conversations, colleagues in the field have intimated that "over forty" is the hiring limit. Museum heads have told me that they preferred to hire young grads because they're so eager, malleable, and flexible. One important museum research division, that has over a dozen college interns, hires from that group alone. Queries to former instructors and advisors in my grad program--as to why I wasn't getting a job after working so hard for my expensive degree--were met with: "get into a PhD program," "to be honest, I always depended on my husband's income," "you should be satisfied with having learned so much," and, my favorite: "I have an inheritance and never had to worry." Meanwhile, several of my fellow grads have been working pro bono or moving from one internship to another. I barely survive by adjunct teaching and consulting, and I continue to take museum-related courses in anticipation of my next job. I would love to publish, but resumes and cover letters consume all of my writing time! I have a huge amount of knowledge to share with museum colleagues--from both extensive experience and from recent studies enriched by a mature and discerning intellect. I have a natural "blind spot" for who's a "Boomer" or "X-er," or anyone else, and my students--of every age and persuasion--know how very important they are to me, just as my volunteers and docents knew that in the context of the museum environment. Then, there's practical wisdom to add. . .and I have lived long enough to be generous. None of this seems to be of value in the hiring process: isn't that a shame? I know that I am not alone. Reduced budgets have seen numbers of talented museum pros "cut from the herd" just when they had the most to offer. On the other hand, others in the field are holding on for dear life, even after they thought they would retire. Is this a problem that deserves discussion? Are there too many museum-related degree programs? (I just heard that my program has accepted over sixty students.) Are the colleges levelling with prospective students about what may be ahead for them? (This is especially true for older, non-traditional students who are financially important for some programs, since they are better able to afford steep tuitions and less likely to require scholarship aid. . .) Should we care that degrees are so expensive even when paying jobs are considered irrelevant? Would the AAM support a conference session on "age discrimination in the museum"? (Even if you are 25 and feeling both immortal and omnipotent, one day--it will be different for you. The world that you make today is the one that you will live in tomorrow.) Indigo Nights [log in to unmask] ========================================================= Important Subscriber Information: The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes). If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes). ========================================================= Important Subscriber Information: The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes). If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).