All, I apologize for combining several responses, but if I put them in individual e-mails, there will be dozens(of complaints). There is a little something here for everyone. Politics and religion are statistically the two things people get most excited about in "debates". It makes perfect sense for vehemence to be expressed in countering "incorrect" opinions. Allow me to clarify the expressed perception of scientific theory.... A scientific theory, whether or not you get some secret thrill or intrinsic understanding out of referring to it as "JUST a theory", is considered correct until proven wrong. Not necessarily authoritative, complete, or infallible, but theoretically correct. You test a theory in the attempt to prove it wrong, and in failing to prove it wrong, you do exactly the opposite. Evolution has been proven over and over again by every experiment that has been applied to the theory. Thousands of scientists work daily to stretch its boundaries and test its explanatory limits. They have not yet been found. Unfortunately we no longer elevate scientific theories to laws, no matter how much evidence there is for them. Despite the fact that we must technically call it such, most biological scientists do not consider it a theory any longer. We also need to keep in mind, that ID is not a scientific theory! It is a philosophical point of view. It is not scientifically testable, nor does it seek to prove itself wrong. The two are therefore incompatible, not only as theories, but also as lines of logical discussion. Anyone who "reconciles" the two, no matter what form that reconciliation takes, is doing justice to neither. The big bang, evolution, gravity or whatever does not need to be reconciled with faith to make them "complete", nor does faith need to incorporate science. Conflict between the two is asinine, but communion between the two is normal and natural for human beings of normal intellectual capacities. Marta is correct in her assertion. Scientists do not think they are scientifically compatible. Underscore scientifically. It is possible however for any individual to reconcile their personal philosophy on faith with science if you choose to do so in your purely internal dialog with spirituality. That does not make it scientifically worthy, unless you are by chance a research psychologist. As to the insanity..... No, we can not stop it. We are human beings. Chris is right though, in that the movie will be boring, prove nothing, and not likely make the ripples hoped for. It is none the less the principle of the thing we are discussing, not the reality. He is also right in that it is all very cool, and you should all go to Vegas at least once. I have already been on that pilgrimage, although I would not mind another go at the blackjack tables. Mark Janzen Registrar/Collections Manager Edwin A. Ulrich Museum of Art Martin H. Bush Outdoor Sculpture Collection Wichita State University (316)978-5850 Rebecca Fitzgerald <rafitzgerald@COM To CAST.NET> [log in to unmask] Sent by: Museum cc discussion list <[log in to unmask] Subject SE.LSOFT.COM> Re: ID Movie at Smithsonian 06/01/2005 06:42 AM Please respond to Museum discussion list <[log in to unmask] SE.LSOFT.COM> Isn't it amazing how vehemently some folks resist any thinking that runs counter to their own? If science truly has a question for everything, then perhaps the Smithsonian is correct, why not show the ID movie and promote open discussion. After all, it is valid science to consider a theory until it can be disproved. To my knowledge evolution is just such a theory...widely held, but never proven. Hmmm... By the way, it is unfortunate that your elevated response sank into vulgarity. Becky Fitzgerald Executive Director Susquehanna Museum -----Original Message----- From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stephen Nowlin Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 12:51 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: ID Movie at Smithsonian Rebecca Fitzgerald said: > Bottom line - if we only believed those things that could be proven, our > lives would certainly be dreary little affairs, wouldn't they? If we were to discard all those human beliefs for which there is no real evidence, we would have truly rid ourselves of "life's dreary little affairs." Not to paint you with this broad brush, Rebecca -- my apologies. But your comment above reminds me of how I've often heard supernaturalists deride science for the arrogance of "having an answer for everything." But in fact, science has the opposite -- a question for everything, and relatively few answers. That makes for an incredibly tantalizing and mysterious world to behold. ID, on the other hand, is really thinly disguised Creationism which purports to know everything about human origins, not to mention the how-and-why of the cosmos. In fact, in an odd way, because of science we know "less" than any earlier time in human history when the answers (for everything) came from religion. The attempt to insert ID into the elevated discourse of naturalism is meant to cloak it with the appearance of being an equal partner with science in explaining the world. It isn't, and the Smithsonian's implied endorsement will only suggest that the science world acquiesces to such an illusion of equality. The Creation Institute knows this, and their PR people are no doubt having orgasms over it. Stephen Nowlin Director, Williamson Gallery Art Center College of Design http://www.xrl.us/stephennowlin ========================================================= Important Subscriber Information: The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes). If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes). ========================================================= Important Subscriber Information: The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes). If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes). ========================================================= Important Subscriber Information: The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes). If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).