The use of an absolute sets you up for contradiction...as in "no scientist thinks ID and evolution are compatible." I would suggest that you spend some time googling the subject. The world is a big place, with lots of scientists, and lots of beliefs. That's what makes it so wonderful. Becky Fitzgerald >No scientist thinks ID and evolution (or the Big Bang theory in cosmology >for that matter) are compatible. >This is a political and cultural problem - not scientific - and actually >that's why it is geographically limited (if it was a scientific problem you >would have the same debate elsewhere because science is universal in the >applicability of its content and methods). All best, Marta -------------------------------- Marta C Lourenco Museum of Science University of Lisbon Rua da Escola Politecnica 56 1250-102 Lisboa Portugal Tel. +351964037535 Fax +351213909326 [log in to unmask] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rebecca Fitzgerald" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:53 PM Subject: Re: ID Movie at Smithsonian > No one has mentioned that many folks have no problem reconciling ID and > evolution as compatible theories, and actually belief that the Big Bang > and > evolution were tools of a Greater Power. Also, when it comes down to a > poll > of people world-wide, I'm betting that ID is a more widely held belief > system. > > Bottom line - if we only believed those things that could be proven, our > lives would certainly be dreary little affairs, wouldn't they? > > Becky Fitzgerald > Executive Director > Susquehanna Museum > > -----Original Message----- > From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On > Behalf > Of Rebecca M. Trussell > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 5:46 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: ID Movie at Smithsonian > > Robyne, > Thanks for pointing this out. I didn't automatically think of the > presentation in historical terms. Perhaps the National Museum of American > History would provide the appropriate venue, in that case, not the > National > Museum of Natural History which unequivocally recognizes the the > scientific method for the proving of theories. > > Rebecca Trussell > >> [Original Message] >> From: Robyne Miles <[log in to unmask]> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> Date: 5/31/2005 4:57:52 PM >> Subject: Re: ID Movie at Smithsonian >> >> Sadly, I would say that there is one part of S.I.'s mission that actually >> fits this circumstance: >> >> "authoritative experiences that connect us to our history and our >> heritage >> as Americans" >> >> No doubt these people are authorities on I.D., and as frightening as it > is, >> this is indeed part of both our history and our heritage as Americans. > Ugh. >> >> DISCLAIMER: This comment does not in any way support the idea of holding >> this event there. As many have stated, I think without an actual forum >> to >> debate varying ideas, having the film there is quite simply crap (I'm >> feeling eloquent). >> >> On 5/31/05 11:44 AM, "Rebecca M. Trussell" >> <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >> > Considering the Smithsonian's mission statement, as refined by >> > Secretary >> > Small, the Smithsonian does not seem to serve itself in any way other > than >> > financially by housing a program on ID unless it results from bona fide >> > scientific research, peer-reviewed and published in a recognized > scientific >> > journal. Founder Smithson's broad-brush mission statement might be >> > interpreted to allow such a program, but the same interpretation could > also >> > support programs exploring the existence of an Aryan race and asserting > UFO >> > existence based on eye-witness testimony. >> > >> > Perusing the Discovery Institute's website gives one the distinct >> > impression that hocus-pocus can easily masquerade as science with the > help >> > of a slick website. >> > >> > >> > http://www.si.edu/about/mission.htm >> > "I then bequeath the whole of my property...to the United States of >> > America, to found at Washington, under the name of the Smithsonian >> > Institution, an Establishment for the increase & diffusion of > knowledge..." >> > James Smithson (1765-1829) >> > >> > >> > "The Smithsonian is committed to enlarging our shared understanding of > the >> > mosaic that is our national identity by providing authoritative > experiences >> > that connect us to our history and our heritage as Americans and to >> > promoting innovation, research and discovery in science. These > commitments >> > have been central to the Smithsonian since its founding more than 155 > years >> > ago." >> > Lawrence M. Small, Secretary of the Smithsonian >> > >> > http://www.discovery.org/ >> > Intelligent design is "simply the argument that certain features of the >> > natural world?from miniature machines and digital information found in >> > living cells, to the fine-tuning of physical constants?are best > explained >> > as the result of an intelligent cause." Jay W. Richards >> > >> > Rebecca Trussell >> > >> > >> >> [Original Message] >> >> From: Jay Heuman <[log in to unmask]> >> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> >> Date: 5/31/2005 1:47:07 PM >> >> Subject: Re: ID Movie at Smithsonian >> >> >> >> I think we all must keep in mind, the Discovery Institute gave a >> >> contribution of $16,000 to the Smithsonian and, just like any other > donor, >> >> they have been granted permission to use the auditorium to screen >> >> their >> >> movie. >> >> Whether one is sympathetic with the contents of the movie, the > system >> >> has this 'loophole.' The Discovery Institute is not abusing or > misusing >> > the >> >> system. >> >> However, perhaps the system should be changed once we ask > ourselves: >> > Who >> >> should decide what can be shown in the Smithsonian's facilities > following >> >> such a donation? Do we want Holocaust deniers giving money to the >> >> Smithsonian for the right to show revisionist propaganda? Do we want > the >> >> KKK donating money so as to conduct a 'White Power' lecture series? I > can >> >> come up with dozens of other scarier thoughts than an intelligent > design >> >> movie. >> >> >> >> [Note: I'm not a supporter of the Design Institute, their >> >> ideas, or their movie. I am a supporter of consistency in >> >> museum policy.] >> >> >> >> Best wishes, sincerely, >> >> >> >> Jay Heuman >> >> Curator of Education >> >> Salt Lake Art Center >> >> 20 South West Temple >> >> Salt Lake City, UT 84101 >> >> >> >> tel: 801-328-4201 | fax: 801-322-4323 >> >> web: www.slartcenter.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 5/31/05 11:07 AM, "Mary Rogers" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>> Hello Everyone, >> >>> I have been hearing a lot lately about ID...mostly by way of various >> > groups >> >>> (radio stations, etc.) making fun of ID believers. Now we have > listers >> >>> calling the showing of this movie at the Smithsonian shameful and >> > horrifying. >> >>> Although some would call people who believe in ID narrow-minded, I am >> > feeling >> >>> compelled to put that same label on those who are bashing those >> > believers and >> >>> also those who are so concerned about this situation. >> >>> My comments and questions: >> >>> It sounds to me like no one is going to be FORCED to watch this movie >> > at the >> >>> museum. Those who want to watch it may do so. >> >>> Individuals may choose to believe in whatever they want, no matter >> >>> how >> >>> ridiculous I think it sounds. >> >>> Aren't museums the perfect place for this type of exchange to take >> > place? If >> >>> not here, then where? Do we think that because we don't like what >> > these IDers >> >>> are saying that we shouldn't let anyone else hear, either? Isn't it > our >> >>> mission and job to present ideas? >> >>> I tend to be somewhat skeptical, but I think that most big-money > donors >> > to >> >>> museum have some type of agenda for which they intend to use the > museum >> > to >> >>> further. Isn't this the way the world works? >> >>> Thanks. Keep up the good work. >> >>> Mary Rogers >> >> >> >> ========================================================= >> >> Important Subscriber Information: >> >> >> >> The Museum-L FAQ file is located at >> > http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed >> > information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail >> > message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message >> > should >> > read "help" (without the quotes). >> >> >> >> If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message > to >> > [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read > "Signoff >> > Museum-L" (without the quotes). >> > >> > ========================================================= >> > Important Subscriber Information: >> > >> > The Museum-L FAQ file is located at > http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ >> > . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by > sending a >> > one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of > the >> > message should read "help" (without the quotes). >> > >> > If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message > to >> > [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read > "Signoff >> > Museum-L" (without the quotes). >> >> ========================================================= >> Important Subscriber Information: >> >> The Museum-L FAQ file is located at > http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed > information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail > message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should > read "help" (without the quotes). >> >> If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to > [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read > "Signoff > Museum-L" (without the quotes). > > ========================================================= > Important Subscriber Information: > > The Museum-L FAQ file is located at > http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed > information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail > message > to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read > "help" > (without the quotes). > > If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to > [log in to unmask] . 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The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes). If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes). ========================================================= Important Subscriber Information: The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes). If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).