I hope you'll forgive the intrusion by a raw newbie to the list, but in my "other life" I manage the resources of a career center at a well-regarded liberal arts university. It appears to be a trend in a lot of academic programs (possibly museum studies as well) to resist too much "applied" learning, with at least two factors supporting this trend: 1.) Faculty who feel it is their responsibility to impart the theories of the field rather than hands-on practical, vocational training. They see themselves as "keepers of the intellectual flame," so to speak. As many institutions persist in valuing contribution to professional literature above the hands-on nitty-gritty of teaching (when it comes to determining tenure), this may become prevalent. 2.) Employers who would rather train their employees in their particular workplace practices--who would rather NOT have to re-train them or break them of habits that the students developed while in school but that don't apply in their particular workplace. Of course, the larger irony of this is that increasingly--from high school forward--the *students* are seeing the value of higher education (undergraduate and graduate) as being almost completely vocational in nature; that is, it's very purpose is seen as preparing them for the world of work. So there's some conflict there. And at the same time, there are exciting developments in corners of the pedagogical world around the idea of giving students hands-on experience. Maybe there's room for intentional development of museum studies programs in the midst of this. . . . I should note of course that I can't really speak to the museum studies experience directly; these are just the trends we've observed in universities in general. All my best, --Eric Eric D. M. Johnson [log in to unmask] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wesley Creel" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] cataloguer training Good Morning Mary and Mark, Good question Mark. If I may build on your observation.........I have seen (by direct on-the-job observation) a growing trend of graduates from museum studies programs, receiving high marks in museology (theory, museum history, ethics, etc...) but low marks in museography (practical museum skills, ....for example, collection management and exhibit work to name a few). This begs the question, "How much of the training in a university degree program should be academic and how much vocational?" Should it be 50/50 theory/practical, or 60/40, or 30/70? Let's fast forward from graduation to work....some graduates end up in smaller institutions and are given the responsibility of not only developing and designing an exhibit, but actually building it....or, to acquire, register, catalogue, prepare, and research new collections all by themselves! This is one of the many realities in hundreds of museums. I would be interested to know, which museum studies programs are preparing their students for this type of a "hands-on" reality. I would also be interested to know the opinions of other hiring supervisors/managers on this issue. .....My bottom line question is, "Should Industrial "dusty" Arts 101 be in the museum studies syllabus?" Best Wishes, Wesley Wesley S. Creel Administrator of Programs Pink Palace Family of Museums 3050 Central Avenue Memphis, TN 38111-3399 www.memphismuseums.org (901) 320-6370 Direct (901) 320-6391 FAX >>> [log in to unmask] 09/23/04 10:35AM >>> Mary, Erin's response was thoughtful and complete, and should solve your problem. My question is about the problem itself. I find myself wondering which program allows its graduates to leave it sheltering arms so underprepared for the field? Is this a graduate or undergraduate program; certificate or full degree? Mark Janzen Registrar/Collections Manager Edwin A. Ulrich Museum of Art Martin H. Bush Outdoor Sculpture Collection Wichita State University (316)978-5850 Mary Agnes Beach <mbeach@CORALGABL ES.COM> To Sent by: Museum [log in to unmask] discussion list cc <[log in to unmask] SE.LSOFT.COM> Subject cataloguer training 09/22/2004 08:45 AM Please respond to Museum discussion list <[log in to unmask] SE.LSOFT.COM> We are hiring a new graduate from a museum studies program to do cataloguing of a collection that includes art, artifacts, and archives. We also are purchasing Embark software for the cataloguing. I would like to hear suggestions as to how to minimize supervisory time and have her learn the program and cataloguing process on her own. Her degree seems to give her a good foundation but during school they did not do any actual cataloguing or learn about any of the available programs. ========================================================= Important Subscriber Information: The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . 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