Carol Ely's letter "Re: Museum loss more shocking than human loss? a clarification" expresses very eloquently what I have been thinking and trying to say. Deb wrote: "But on the flip side, many hundreds of societies and cultures have existed without museums. Are they on a "lesser level" than societies with museums?" Of course not! I was stating, perhaps not clearly enough, that I think one of the roles of museums throughout the world, is to preserve cultural history particularly of conquered and transfigured societies, and allow access to public to understand history and cultures more, one outcome potentially being appreciation and reverance leading to preservation, rather than future destruction of these societies, and prevent repetition of historical atrocities. I also feel that they shed light on multiple perspectives of what occurred in human history at any given time. I apologize to everyone for being redundant, but apparently I was not clearly understood. Deb, I think it's fair to ask if you think that the "subsistence" societies are on a lesser level, in your comparison of societies of humans to societies of dogs? That was my question to you entirely in the first place, why you bring "dogs" into this discussion, as I don't quite see the connection. You/your theatre instructor compared what dogs do or don't have/do with people, so I wondered if you feel that is a reasonable guideline for all that we should/should not have in our lives and society today. . . I'll extend this list beyond theatre/museums/war to: should dogs/we have modern medicine, various advances in technology, access to quality well-rounded education, music, dance, folk art, freedom of religion and spirituality, freedom of speech, self-governing, protection of environment and ways of life, and access to many various forms of information, not only from one-sided well-funded government endorsed information from media monopolies (which are oft quoted in this list BTW). I will also add: should dogs/we have SUV's, TV's, cell phones, computers, nuclear weapons, corporate welfare and tax breaks. . . You can see that now that this is a ridiculous comparison and line of thought. Nothing to do with any societies being at lesser/higher levels, more about quality of life. A society as we would know it, sans the arts, would be not simply less grand, it would be bleak and less informed and with less soul and room for contemplation of the past, who we are and have been and freedom of self-expression, and potential to learn from our mistakes. I recommend you read Guns, Germs and Steel if you haven't. I also recommend book "Power Play" by Arundati Roy. Deb wrote: "Some societies have survived thousands of years remaining virtually unchanged solely oral histories and folk traditions. While I think civilization will be less grand without museums, it will certainly survive." I very much acknowledge and appreciate that "some" societies have survived thus, and hope that they continue to do so. I suspect that there are not many left, but I could be wrong. How many societies have not survived or barely survived as such, due to conquering and destruction of the past (languages, religion, history, folk traditions) and are struggling to regain former ways of life? And luckily anyone in the world can learn about the ones that are gone via museums. How many cultures and their traditions have become assimilated or have been attempted to be assimilated if not destroyed by entities with advanced technologies? These things I lament and that is partially why I choose to write what I do. Museums help us to understand so many of the societies past and present and in every corner of the world, even though only being in existence between 200 and 500 years ago, and perhaps in ancient Greece and Rome (others on this list know the answer to your question far better than I -- the oldest one that I could find on a quick search was the Uffizi Gallery in Florence, 1581, but perhaps there are older?) I agree that civilization will "survive", but at what level? What will the quality of education and life be without museums, film, music and other arts? Without museums, exhibits, the arts in our consumer society, knowledge and values may change in ways that leave us spiritually and emotionally bereft. While some societies don't have museums, also they don't have consumerism at the levels we do! They don't have multi-national corporations (but coming soon!) I feel that museums and the arts in general serve as a place in the rapidly changing world to preserve cultural memory and ways of life, as opposed to potential spreading of homogenity. I believe/hope that many, if not most institutions today are for the collection, preservation and academic study of a culture, not just a collection of artifacts to show off just how wealthy and powerful you really are. The latter does not fit the categories of which I speak. Deb wrote: "On a related note, how long have formal museums been in existance? I'm talking about insitutions for the collection, preservation and academic study of a culture, not just a collection of artifacts to show off just how wealthy and powerful you really are to those around you (aka "stuff size wars". :) I figure that the Greeks and Romans probably had some form of museums but that "modern" museums are a relatively recent thing - like within the past 200 years or so. Just curious." I am curious as to what you view the role of your museum and museums in general in today's society. Do you really not feel it worthy cause to support their protection and survival in a wartorn country or damaged economy, as it seems? Cindy ========================================================= Important Subscriber Information: The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes). If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).