Then all commentary is welcome into a museum list-serv? I am increasingly deleting such chat and forage for the few nuggets of art /museum interest. Unfortunately I may be foraging more now that I have a little more time on my hands. (Now there's a topic....the effect of cutbacks and lay offs with museum collections and programming) regards RB >From: Lee Kinsella <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: Museum discussion list <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: CLONING FOR STEM CELLS >Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:24:39 +1000 > >Has no one had the experience of the beliefs of a director influencing >policies >and procedures in their museum or gallery? > > How the politics of the government or governing body impact on galleries >and >museums is an issue. > >I think discussion as to how we deal with various, and often conflicting, >belief >systems is very relevant. > >Lee > > > > > >Laura Hansen <[log in to unmask]> on 28/11/2001 05:09:47 AM > >Please respond to Museum discussion list <[log in to unmask]> > >To: [log in to unmask] >cc: (bcc: Lee Kinsella/AWM) > >Subject: Re: CLONING FOR STEM CELLS > > > > >I have to second that. > > >>> [log in to unmask] 11/27/01 01:19PM >>> >What do this have to do with the museum community or the purpose of this >listserve? > >Casey Connell > >-----Original Message----- >From: Barb Rexroat [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 12:36 PM >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: CLONING FOR STEM CELLS > > While you can split an atom, you can not completely separate >church and state as long as church goers vote and whether you think they >are right, wrong or zealots, they vote for our government >representatives who make these difficult decisions. The government >doesn't always please us, that's for sure. It's very easy for you to >criticize the president when you are not the one trying to please the >entire country. > Furthermore, you will NEVER convince me that an embryo is not >one of God's children. If scientists want me to believe that because of >the process of evolution man has not always looked the way he does >today, why can't I expect scientists to believe that an embryo can be a >human even if it doesn't look like we do. > It's very easy for you to say that people who are against >cloning an embryo are zealots. You don't know me, how can you label me? >I would argue that scientists can be zealots for their beliefs as well. > > Just keep in mind that just because someone disagrees with you >doesn't mean they are "wrong" any more than you are "right" or "wrong." >Religious people are not against science. Last time I checked we all >had a right to our opinion and many of us disagree with embryo cloning. >That is OK. > When it's all said and done, if I'm wrong, so what; but if >scientists who disregard God's will are wrong, they have one hell of a >price to pay. > Barb >At 03:50 PM 11/26/01 -0800, you wrote: > >. The science community, those interested in the right to choice, > >those wanting to see humane scientific progress, must restore to the > >science community the right to make scientific definitions , and not > >give it to religious fundamentalists. Religions defining scientific > >organisms or defining anything in the sciences, through law, violates > >Separation of Church and State. > > It's based on a religious definition, adopted by the "dead or > >alive" pro-death penalty President, that "human life (e.g., a baby) > >begins at conception. > > A six-cell embryo is hardly a "baby" or a "human being." It's > >argued that an embryo is "potentially" a human being, therefore "human > >life." > > The same "potential" could be claimed for an egg or sperm or a > >"gleam in the eye." It's literature, or poetry, and all fine, but it's > >not science. It makes no more sense to claim this for a new embryo, >than > >to say a woman's egg is a "baby;" or that a sperm is a "human life." >The > >only difference is that intercourse (or another method) fertilized the > >egg, making it an "embryo." This is the scientific definition of that > >level of life. > > That's why science called it an embryo, not a baby: Because it > >is still scientifically *different* from a sentient, independent human > >being. That is, until the religious right browbeat the defining of > >scientific terms into law along its own biases. > > Hypocrisy enters the fray when we hear Bush and others say, > >"it's wrong to kill one innocent human being even if to save others >from > >an evil disease." This, from the people who tell us we must accept > >"collateral killing" of innocent people in the greater good of stopping > >evil. > > The issue to re-fight now is again for Separation of Church >and > >State, of Church and public, of Church and Science. > > It's one thing to resist cloning human beings (or placing a > >cloned embryo into a womb). This is not proposed. > > The whole procedure takes place using one's own genetic > >material, altered and returned, to heal a sick organ, spine, etc., and > >should be a right of "choice" in the control of one's own body. > > The only "ethic" here lies in the power struggle of zealots > >further dictating to the state and to science. > >Bob Fink > > > >========================================================= > >Important Subscriber Information: > > > >The Museum-L FAQ file is located at > > http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed > >information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail >message > >to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read >"help" > >(without the quotes). > > > >If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message >to > >[log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read >"Signoff > >Museum-L" (without the quotes). > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Barb Rexroat >Grants and Contracts Administrator >Comptroller's Office >Illinois State University >ph 309-438-5694 fax 309-438-8245 >[log in to unmask] >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >============================Important Subscriber Information: > >The Museum-L FAQ file is located at >http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . >You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending >a one >line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the >message >should read "help" (without the quotes). > >If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to >[log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff >Museum-L" (without the quotes). > >========================================================= >Important Subscriber Information: > >The Museum-L FAQ file is located at >http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed >information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail >message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should >read "help" (without the quotes). > >If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to >[log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff >Museum-L" (without the quotes). _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ========================================================= Important Subscriber Information: The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes). If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).