This can be a difficult question to answer because there are no "definitive" definitions (was that redundant?) for any of these terms, nor should there be. What one institution calls a friends group another may call members and vice versa. Again, this is as it should be as each institution has its own peculiar needs and history. From my experience, at the institutions I have worked and those I have worked with or close by, memberships tend to be those organizations which are administered and led by the institutions themselves and are meant solely to foster support for the institution, including financial, intellectual, educational, etc. I have always interpreted friends organizations as those support groups that are managed and led by people other than staff or volunteers of the institution, and have little or no official association with the administrators of a site. In many cases they are primarily dedicated to garnering support for a site, building, or collection and only secondarily support for the institution that has stewardship of those places or items, and often oppose the administrators of a site on many issues. Civil War battlefields come to mind. Many of them have friends organizations who tend the lawns and memorials and raise money for preserving the site. However they are not officially part of the administration entrusted with preserving and interpreting the battlefield, even though many of the docents and other staff and volunteers are part of the friends group. This relationship can become strained when the steward organization (NPS or a state or local equivalent) starts to interpret the site in a manner not consistent with the friends groups' vision of the site. This latter group is what I thought of when the original question was posed. As a couple of you noted, government run sites often do not, or can not, have a membership organization so they use a friends organization to fulfill that role, and sometimes there is no difference other than label for the two kinds of organizations. Although no one brought up the topic, I also think there is room here to mention all of those other organizations that can glom onto a museum or historic site that can serve as a titular friends group because they have an interest in the content of a site. At the B&O Railroad Museum there was the B&O Historical Society (which is a weak if accurate example), and groups like the Daughters of the American Revolution, Colonial Dames, and Daughters of the War of 1812, and institutions which commemorate the history of an industrialist or company can have the present corporate entity as a "friend" and can reap numerous benefits from the corporation and its employees even though there is no official affiliation. These ancillary groups can often wield political power within an organization, even if they have no official association. These groups can serve as a great source of person-power, financial support, and community support, but they can also be a pain in the neck if they begin to exert undue control over management and interpretation issues and/or make noise in the community when things do not go their way. I also know of a couple of institutions that still have Women's Auxiliaries which function both inside and outside the institution management structure of an institution, but still seem to have the traditional role these groups have always had. I am still unsure what these are, but their meetings always have the best food. : ) When you add volunteers into the mix it gets even hazier, as some organizations require membership of volunteers, some do not, and some institutions administer their volunteers through a friends organization to save money. All that having been said, I'd like to return this post back to the original issue of Friends Association's Benefits. I would not hesitate to offer retail benefits to any organization which is an organization devoted solely to the support of the institution and (preferably) managed by the institution. Whether you call them members, friends, or the Fred Loves Ethel Fan Club doesn't matter. What matters is that the institution gains something from the organization. I would hesitate to offer discounts to members of organizations administered outside the administration of a museum or historical site, unless there is a tangible gain by the institution from the organization AS A WHOLE!!! I emphasize the last part because most friends organizations with which I have experience (or DAR or other outside organization) tend to have a few active members and a whole lot of dues paying, do nothing members, and I would hate to offer a whole organization a discount because a small percentage of the organization is very helpful. Maybe the outside organization can become corporate members, or maybe there can be some sort of discount per so many hours served, etc. I am sure it can be worked out between willing organizations. Anyway, sorry for the long post. I just think this is an interesting topic and I don't think we are all always on the same page on this even though we think we are. And, even though I think we should all do what works for each of our institutions, we need to define terms, phrases, and concepts if we want to have a meaningful discussion with minimum misunderstandings. -- Matthew White Director of Museums Mount Washington Observatory www.mountwashington.org ========================================================= Important Subscriber Information: The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes). If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).