In a message dated Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:31:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Neidorf, Melissa" <[log in to unmask]> writes:


>         Different cultures give their own meaning to their own objects than
> people from outside that culture.

And that's fine.  But it's one thing to say, "We should be sensitive to other cultures" and other thing to put a blanket limit on not displaying anything religious because SOME cultures don't want their things displayed.

>         Different cultures give their own meaning to their own objects than
> people from outside that culture. Example, Aboriginal Australian culture is
> now estimated at least around 50,000 years  and todays links and meaning to
> that past are not decreased or seen as invalid because another culture
> detemines that Western notions of time is revelant to cultural significance.

In that case, there is a direct link between the "modern" people and their ancestors and thus I think they have a valid right to say how their artifacts are handled.  I don't think it's a valid right for "modern" Native American tribes to dictate what happens to prehistoric tribes when there isn't a clear connection between tribes.  People moved in and out of America and some prehistoric tribes have no direct modern decendants.  I don't think anyone has the right to dictate what happens to the remains or artifacts of peoples that aren't "direct", proven ancestors.

 >
>         Different cultures give their own meaning to their own objects than
> people from outside that culture. Links and meaning are not invalid because
> another culture detemines HOW OR WHY OR WHAT is revelant and culturally
> significant.

So who determines "culture"?  I don't think anyone is going to argue that while Native Americans are part of a  broad culture of "Native American" but there are hundreds of Native American tribes that are vastly different from each other.  Same with being "African" or "American".  How close do cultures have to be to have power over what happens to artifacts?  My example pointed out that an Eastern tribe was trying to "take back" artifacts from a Southwestern tribe.  Those two tribes have very little in common "culturally" other than both being Native American.  They come from two completely different areas - almost opposite - areas of the country, have different customs and different ways of life.  It's the same as someone from New York City and someone from Savana, GA are both "American" in a broad cultural sense but have little in common outside that broad culture.


>         Different cultures give their own meaning to their own objects and
> history than people from outside that culture.

That does not address the point of making claims on objects that were freely given up by members of the same culture.  And what about things that were discarded and collected?  Again, I don't know of a culture that makes claims on trash dropped by their people hundreds or thousands of years ago.

>         It aint nothing to do with PC - Just being sensitive to other
> cultures and mindful of your own yardsticks.

My yardsticks are the same across cultures and I don't know of many cultures that make claims on artifacts that are hundreds of years old.  If something is sold or given away, I don't see how anyone other than the present owner should have rights to it and certainly someone doesn't have the right to come in and claim it back unless there are extreme circumstances. It's one thing to say, "I'm sorry.  I didn't know that the quilt I sold you was a family heirlom and would like it back."  It's quite another one to say, "We want those baskets that were given to the museum over 100 years ago completely of my ancestor's free will."  Or "We want those artifacts back from that prehistoric tribe that is Native American but has no living decendants because they died out over 1000 years ago."

Deb Fuller

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