John,

You said: And only those dogs that help the physically disabled are allowed
in museums.

I say: In this day and age, many more people with MENTAL and NOT physical
disabilities are being prescribed companion dogs for their well-being and to
help them function in the real world.  I would find it very discriminatory
to not allow them into a public facility with their dog just because their
condition is not readily apparent to the eye.

Heather Marie Wells

>From: John Martinson <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Museum discussion list <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Dogs
>Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 19:52:31 -0600
>
>Deb:
>
>First, I was not talking to you  -- but in general terms.   But, since you
>replied.....
>
>You said: And people are allergic to perfumes and some dogs don't shed
>enough or at all
>to cause allergies. Should we start banning perfumed visitors too?
>
>I reply:  Again, museums are for people and NOT for animals/pets.   A dog
>is there only to follow its
>master...not to learn.   Babies, as past discussions have mentioned, need
>to be with parents.
>
>I would say more people are allergic to dogs than to perfume.  And I would
>rather smell some perfume than a dog with his rear hair smelling and things
>a hanging.  (if you know what I mean).  ;o)
>
>My ex said her dog never shed hair.   I put a tape on the chair and it
>picked up lots of doggie hair.
>matching the hair of the dog.
>
>You said: Heh. I can point you to many people who don't bathe nearly as
>often as they
>should, and they're not homeless people either. My dog rarely needs a bath
>because he's got very short hair and thankfully stays away from icky
>things. He
>smells a lot better and keeps cleaner than a lot of kids I know.
>
>I reply:  But museums are for people and not for animals/pets.  And that is
>your dog...other
>dogs do need baths.   And as a former curator....dog hair is bad on
>collections, clean up,
>jam filters of air cleaners, etc.
>
>Most kids takes baths and your dog doesn't  - no dander.   I don't think
>so.  And when the dog is
>out rolling in the dirt  - no dirt gets in his/her hair?
>
>You said: Again, I'd wager that the screaming 6 month old isn't getting
>much out of the
>museum experience or that the toodler (don't you mean "toddler"???)  who
>constantly runs away from Mommy isn't either. Bored teen-agers and
>boyfriends who get dragged to art galleries by
>their girlfriends probably aren't absorbing anything either. While my dog
>probably won't learn much, he is appreciative of getting a walk which is
>one up
>on the bored teen-agers and boyfriends.
>
>I reply:  But other people are not appreciative of dogs in public places.
>Museums are not for pets, but for people -- and Deb -- yup, even for
>children.  Surely in a fine art museum, where people want to take in the
>art or exhibit, having a pet there (when it does not have to be) it does
>would get visitors upset.   Next you will say -- allow cows, sheep and
>horses and "charge a fee."
>
>Parents, with children are allowed in museums.  They are people. Dogs and
>pets are personal things.  You have them, but other people do not.  Keep
>them at home, in the kennel or walk them in the park.  Surely, your are not
>providing your animal a good walk in a museum -- looking at exhibits?
>
>You said: Properly trimmed they don't and they are much less damaging than
>high heels,
>sneakers, and stroller wheels.
>
>I reply:  But museums are for not for pets, but for people.
>
>And how many people "properly trim" their animals?   Very few...how many
>people bath their animals?
>Very few.
>
>You said:  I assume you mean sniff.  (See we all make mistakes!  LOL)
>My old dachshound (isn't it dachshund????) wasn't high enough off the
>ground to
>sniff past your ankles.  And again, properly trained dogs don't do that.
>I've
>been pawed by plenty of kids who didn't know how to keep their hands to
>themselves.
>
>I reply:  Even properly trained dogs are not allowed in most museums,
>except Canine Companion or seeing eye dogs.
>
>Are people with dogs going to be required to show a paper that "their
>animal is trained"?
>
> > Children earn money for a museum, pets do not.
>
>You said:  Charge a pet admission.
>
>I reply:  Oh get real!  Sheesh!  Then any pet could be coming into the
>museum, trained or not trained.
>Where do you draw the line.   Then discrimination cases would be filed and
>you would have many upset customers.  Or they will say "XYZ" Museum allows
>my pet Snaggle-puss.  Why don't you?"
>
>You said:  Well that is a problem with inconsiderate dog owners. On the
>flip side, how
>many kids pick up after themselves these days?
>
>I reply:  We are talking about doggie do-do.   We are talking about
>exhibits, expensive buildings, art, collections, and dog hair and smell.
>If dogs are allowed, I'm sure more doggie do-do and urine would be on the
>floor than with children.
>
>I walk on many trails in our local canyons where dogs are allowed and
>suppose to be on leach.  Very
>few are, and very few clean them up.  The train is covered with doggie
>poop.  The dogs are also chasing the wildlife, and leaving the trails on
>private property.   Again, this has to do with training and the owners
>themselves not carrying.  Their doggies own the world, and they are allowed
>to poop and pee where ever they want...and on museum lawns.  Female doggie
>urine leaves yellow spots.  More expenses to already tight museum budgets.
>All for those doggies!
>
>You said: Uh, no. Pet allergies are caused by pet dander and hair, not by
>drool. Don't
>know what you mean by dribble tho'.
>
>I reply:  Allergies are not only caused by "pet dander and hair" but by the
>drool of them licking themselves constantly, and that "material" flying
>through the air when it is dried.   It is the dried drool that is a great
>deal of the problem with people who suffer from allergies, not just the
>skin dander.
>
>The following is from a dog site:  "There is no dog breed that is truly
>non-allergenic (not allergy causing) because all (emphasis my own) dogs
>produce dander (shed skin cells), saliva, and urine that people can be
>allergic to. Allergy-producing proteins, allergens, in the dander or saliva
>can produce nasal congestion, sneezing, itchy and watery eyes, skin rashes,
>headaches, fatigue, and serious asthma attacks. The word hypo-allergenic
>(less allergy causing) is typically used with skin care products that tend
>to be less irritating to sensitive skin."  Source:
>http://members.aol.com/AHTerrier/allergies.html<http://members.aol.com/AHTerrier/allergies.html>
>
>You said: My dog will do the sniff thing but he only barks when he's
>playing at the puppy
>park and he's never gotten into a fight.
>
>I reply:  And if your dog sniffed on me, I would be allowed to make the
>museum pay for cleaning my clothing?   If I were in a museum and a dog
>comes up and drolls on me or puts a wet nose on me....and ruin a dress,
>skirt or slacks I would be upset.   Very few children would do that.
>
>You said: Riiiiight. They're little angels all the time. *snort*
>
>I reply: Riiiight.  But children are allowed in museums, and dogs are not.
>  And you are speaking
>only about "your" own doggie.  Are you implying all dogs are such well
>mannered?  I think not.
>
>I walk our dog and there are dogs that are passive, while others are very
>aggressive.
>
>Are museum going to be legally binding for any dog bites, people who trip
>on your animals leash or
>tip over exhibits or artifacts.  Are dog owners going to pay for damages?
>
>And what about dogs at outdoor parks, with chickens, cows, sheep.  They
>chase the animals,
>and people do not stop them.  Dogs at our park were constantly killing our
>rare breed of sheep,
>chickens and ducks.  Yup, those well trained dogs.
>
>You said:  You need to get to your local playground more often. Children
>can be louder and
>more destructive than dogs.
>
>I reply:  But museums are for people, and playgrounds are for children.
>Children are excited,
>and do get loud..that is what they do at playgrounds.  But for my child to
>play and fall in a
>doggie do-do.....that is very upsetting.
>
> >The office would spell like a pet kennel!
>
>You said: Uh, again, the offices where I worked at that allowed pets smelt
>no different
>than offices with pets.
>
>I reply: And most people with pets, are so use to the smell they cannot
>smell animal smell in their
>own homes.   However, a new person coming into house -- it does smell,
>especially someone with allergies.  Their eyes water, nose runs, etc.
>
> > NO PETS IN MUSEUMS!  Because you like pets, does not mean everyone else
>has
> > to be disturbed by what one feels is "a human" but is a dog!
>
>You said:  I don't think pets are human but I do think my dog is better
>behaved that a lot
>of children I see. And while I wasn't in Germany that long, I saw plenty of
>dogs in resturants (do you mean restaurants?) and shops but narry a yip,
>sniff, or poop. Most of the time
>you didn't notice that they were around except for a water dish under the
>table. So if Germany can learn to deal with pets, why can't America?
>
>I reply:  So museums are going to be required to keep water dishes, and you
>don't think the
>slurping and lapping is not going to be disrupting the learning experience?
>
>And golly gee, to sit in a restaurant and hear a dog lapping and dripping
>to get a scrap of food,
>I would walk out.
>
>And you are speaking only of your dog.  I am willing to say that that is a
>very small percent of
>people who would have dogs trained enough to enter a museum.  And are they
>going to be
>on a leash or running free?
>
> > Sorry, IMHO, pets are not human and should not be allowed in museums.
> > Children are human.
>
>You said: Well I'd argue that some children aren't that human either. ;)
>
>I reply:  But they are human...and no matter what you might say -- doggies
>are dogs.  And only
>those dogs that help the physically disabled are allowed in museums.
>
>John
>
>=========================================================
>Important Subscriber Information:
>
>The Museum-L FAQ file is located at
>http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed
>information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail
>message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should
>read "help" (without the quotes).
>
>If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to
>[log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff
>Museum-L" (without the quotes).

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

=========================================================
Important Subscriber Information:

The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes).

If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).