Dave,
Absolutely. Every culture considers them in some way or other, and has as
far back as written history can tell us. I meant that I am unaware of any
religion(s) that explicitly involve the worship or consideration of the
manifestations we normally refer to as "ghostly". Souls, spirits, life
energies, yes, but physical manifestations of those spirits no. I am of
course not categorically aware of all religions and metaphysical points of
view, so I could be missing one or two. I perceive a huge difference
between a ghost and a soul, althought the term "spirit" is a little more
transitional.
I think the ghost phenomenon dovetails nicely with science and rational
thought. As a popular culture phenomenon, the belief in and search for
ghosts follows the cultural and technical lines of whatever age we look at.
I do not think that has any bearing on the predominance of science in our
age. I think the trend is a reflection of that predominance, that people
are fascinated with attempts to demonstrate the existence of such
beings/energies. Their substantive reality is not relevant, and not
injurious to rational thought. The attempt to prove something that can not
be proven by definition is simply foolish, but ghosts walk the fine line
between reality and imagination. The notion that they can be seen and felt
is something that can be tested, whether or not that has any bearing on the
existence of a "ghost" itself. The very technologies used to "test" for
such metaphysical phenomenon are themselves works of popular culture and
direct reflections of the perceptions of the ghostly phenomena.
I did not intend to imply that a belief in ghosts or the desire to
prove/disprove them derives from boerdom. I am just wondering if the
ratings boost derives from that, or if there is a real desire for people to
"know".
Thanks.
Mark Janzen
Registrar/Collections Manager
Edwin A. Ulrich Museum of Art
Martin H. Bush Outdoor Sculpture Collection
Wichita State University
(316)978-5850
David Harvey
<top10denverdave@
AOL.COM> To
Sent by: Museum [log in to unmask]
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<[log in to unmask]
SE.LSOFT.COM> Subject
Re: Ghosts at historic sites
09/07/2005 10:44
AM
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<[log in to unmask]
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Mark,
I think that there has been a deep belief and attraction to ghosts
throughout human history that is pan-cultural and pan-religious. Even
if ghosts are not considered the same as "spirits" you will find that
it is a deep folk-belief that exists no matter the religious
orientation of the society / culture or individual.
Just think of the use of ghosts in Shakespeare's Hamlet or in ancient
Greek or Roman literature. This strong belief and attraction persists,
and even thrives today even given the supposed predominance of science
and rational thought (Are we the grandchildren of the Enlightenment?).
So, I don't think that this is recent or arises from boredom. It is
something that is deeply rooted in the human soul and is probably part
of what Jung called "The Collective Unconscious".
Cheers!
Dave
David Harvey
Conservator
Los Angeles, California, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Janzen <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 09:25:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Ghosts at historic sites
Very true, I do not get the sense that is really a religious issue.
I am
unaware of any faiths that treat ghosts as sacred or otherwise. Spirits,
angels, etc. yes, ghosts no. It is just that the belief in ghosts is
similar to other beliefs that can not be substantively proven, and are
based on hearsay and subjective observation.
Certainly, they should do so. As noted before, ghosts are popular
culture,
as are Civil War re-enactments and wild west demonstrations. I do not
think
there is anything unethical about using such stories to engage and even
excite your visiting pubic. However, if you are just making stuff up to
give yourself something to talk about on a tour, then I would say "bad
tourguide", and send them to the corner.
I have begun to wonder if all the hype about ghosts and particularly
ghost
hunting is less the result of growing "belief" but rather curiosity.
Are we
really seeing a rise in the number of people who truly believe ghosts
exist, or a rise in the number of people who are bored enough to watch
such
shows and drive up their ratings. Perhaps a study is in order.
Mark Janzen
Registrar/Collections Manager
Edwin A. Ulrich Museum of Art
Martin H. Bush Outdoor Sculpture Collection
Wichita State University
(316)978-5850
"Verlag Dr. C.
Mueller-Straten"
<VERLAGCMS@T-ONLI
To
NE.DE> [log in to unmask]
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Subject
SE.LSOFT.COM> Re: Ghosts at historic sites
09/03/2005 07:45
AM
Please respond to
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<[log in to unmask]
SE.LSOFT.COM>
Dear James, dear Mark,
Yes, all this wide-spread material of the so-called History or Sci-Fi
channel is the the source of growing belief in ghosts worldwide. The
presented material is very cleverly sold to many countries, also to
Germany. But I repeat, it is part of the political machinery. To my
knowledge, no larger religious community is somewhow interested in
ghosts.
And there seems to any an ethical level in this discussion too:
Should museum staff really do "ghost tours" to increase income or
visitor
figures?
Regards
Christian Müller-Straten
"James Schulte" <[log in to unmask]> schrieb:
> The History Channel has shown many,I guess all those shows on there
are
> bogus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf
> Of Mark Janzen
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:05 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Ghosts at historic sites
>
>
> Ghosts and hauntings are pure popular culture, as well as the bread
and
> butter of numerous historic sites and facilities. That is exactly why
there
> are so many shows on tv and elsewhere. People eat it up. Consider that
most
> of them air on the Sci-Fi channel.
>
> I do not personally believe in them, never having seen any evidence
capable
> of convincing me of the existence of anything metaphysical. I often
wonder
> if our visiting public truly believes in such things, or if they are
just
> running off of the hype and the stories. Perhaps they are lumping
them in
> with angels and devils as similar metaphysical and unproveable beings.
Most
> of the time I doubt people ever really consider it at all.
>
> I know several people who say they believe in ghosts, but who do not
claim
> to have seen any, which I find confusing. Ghosts appear to be similar
if
> not identical in psychological form to UFOs and miracles. If you are
> convinced you have seen one or the other, then you have substantive
doubts
> that need to be addressed, but otherwise it is a matter of pure
> opinion/belief.
>
> I am however totally open to any form of substantive proof.
>
> Very interesting. Makes me wonder if ghosts can swim, because I know
> several places in New Orleans that are haunted to the gills. Opinions?
>
> Mark Janzen
> Registrar/Collections Manager
> Edwin A. Ulrich Museum of Art
> Martin H. Bush Outdoor Sculpture Collection
> Wichita State University
> (316)978-5850
>
>
>
> Elizabeth
> Caldwell
> <lizmaekate@HOTMA
To
> IL.COM> [log in to unmask]
> Sent by: Museum
cc
> discussion list
> <[log in to unmask]
Subject
> SE.LSOFT.COM> Re: Ghosts at historic sites
>
>
> 09/01/2005 08:27
> AM
>
>
> Please respond to
> Museum discussion
> list
> <[log in to unmask]
> SE.LSOFT.COM>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <i>Sorry, but there are no ghosts. Museum interpretation work has
nothing
> to
> do with (TV) nonsense.</i>
>
> Yet another biased comment that has no business being in the Museum
world.
>
> (Long time lurker) If the people, aka the public, aka the people who
come
>
> to the museum, are interested in a subject, then yes, the subject
should
be
>
> addressed no matter your PERSONAL views upon it. Museums are
supposed
to
>
> present objective information on the subjects that interest the
public.
> Now, of course, what you don't want to do is have a few "psychics"
running
>
> through the house/building/museum. Instead, approach it as you would
any
> other subject. Write up a full history of the previous owners, anyone
who
> died mysteriously in or around the house, and eye witness accounts.
The
> museum/house might want to adopt and write up a policy that they do
not
> either believe nor disbelieve in the paranormal and add that to
exhibit.
> That, at the very least, should give you a good start.
>
> Sincerely,
> Elizabeth
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Verlag Dr. C. Mueller-Straten" <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: Museum discussion list <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Ghosts at historic sites
> >Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:08:00 GMT
> >
> >Dear Marilynn,
> >
> >Sorry, but there are no ghosts. Museum interpretation work has
nothing
to
> >do with (TV) nonsense.
> >
> >Best regards
> >
> >
> >Christian Mueller-Straten
> >
> >
> >"Marilynn Havelka" <[log in to unmask]> schrieb:
> > > We are receiving a number of requests from companies or
individuals
> > > interested in doing stories on ghosts at our historic house or
> >clairvoyants,
> > > or those interested in doing seyonces (sp?). Also it is one of the
most
> > > frequently asked questions from individuals on tour.
> > > I would like to know what other sites, museums etc. do to
accommodate
> >the
> > > above or do you discourage it. Do you incorporate it into the
> >programming,
> > > encourage discussion or allow filming for same.
> > >
> > > I welcome any feedback!
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > >
> > >
> > > Marilynn Havelka,
> > > Chief Administrative Officer
> > > Ruthven Park National Historic Site
> > > 243 Hwy. #54, Box 610, Cayuga, ON
> > > Canada N0A 1E0
> > > Tel: 905.772.0560
> > > Fax: 905.772.0561
> > >
> > > =========================================================
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> >Verlag Dr. Christian Müller-Straten / MUSEUMS AGENTUR
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