Sorry to the list for duplication: the return email address did not work


Hi Carol, Ted and Jacqueline: I tried the return address to answer your questions but according to the server the address
was changed and no new email address was given so I am sending this to the list.

I have answered the questions in the same order that you sent them too me. Your questions are in italic's and the answers
are after each question. If I over simplify the fact please excuse me. The problem with writing these articles for the AYM
is that I'm not a writer. If it weren't for my wife of 31 years I would have never gotten through English at Virginia Tech.
I guess that's why I'm an Architect and deal with the Visual and Physical world more than literature.

From - Mon Nov 27 12:17:59 2000
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To: Bill Greaves [log in to unmask]
President Architects iN Design
Va. Beach, Virginia 23454
757(478-6489)
Subject: Architectural Fees and exhibit design
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Mr. Greaves,

We are in the process of looking for adequate space to expand our Museum into a hands on type of facility similar to a
Science Museum or Children's Museum. No more static exhibits for us.
One of our board members was talking with a director of a nearby Children's Museum and lent her a copy of a large brochure
that contained a pictorial overviews of several museums that you have completed. The brochure contained several articles
that you were listed as the author.
I hope that you don't mind but we copied the brochure and gave it to our twelve member board to review. My board has review
the information and we have several questions that I hope you can explain or enlighten us on. We have never been through
this design process before and are very near to soliciting Architects and exhibit designers so I hope that these questions
do not seem too dense.
1.      We understand that the difference between a Design Architect and the local Architect is that the Design Architect has had
previous experience in the particular building type. (We agree that this is a must for our project) The question is
should the local Architect have experience in similar building types and does the size of their firms really matter. We
have also been approached by several A/E firms promising cut rates. (nothing in writing just talk). What impact will this
be on the project?

1a.  It is not necessary for the local Architect to have direct Museum experience. That's why you hire a Design Architect.
He/she will lead the team and feed the appropriate information on not only the Architectural but also plumbing, Mechanical,
Electrical and exhibit design coordination to the appropriate discipline. It is helpful if the local Architect has some
related experience of assembly type of buildings so he/she has a working knowledge of dealing with large crowds. The
consultants that have been proposed to work with the local Architect are a different story. Specialty lighting and
mechanical requirements for museums are critical. Look closely at them. The best looking building will not be a cup of tea
if everyone is miserable because the mechanical system does not work properly, and the lighting doesn't work well with the
exhibits. The Design Architect will help the local electrical engineer in lighting layouts.

1b. Size of firm isn't the critical question to ask. Part of item # 2 also deals directly with this question. I have worked
with both large and small firms as the Design Architect. The real question here is intent. Unfortunately any firm who has
not completed a Museum or Children's Museum and wants to do one will sometimes say that they will offer a cut rate. Larger
firms can offer a larger cut rate then smaller firms. That's because they can figure out what the brake even point is and
find someone in there organization that is at the lowest pay scale and make them the project Architect. You will get what
you pay for, so do you want the person with the most experience in the office working on your project or a beginner? The
biggest problem that I found is that the larger firms, who need many - many projects to survive treat the "Budget" project
as a stepchild and work on it when and if they have time. This is especially true if they gave a large discount. They have
to make up the loss monies (profits) somewhere else
so your job is treated as an also-ran. The smaller firm (might) treated it differently, as this could be a prime job not an
in-fill project. "All projects take x number of hours to complete so buyer be ware" Look at intent. Read between the lines.
What is their true motive? You will have to live with this building for a long time. Is it worth the chance on saving a few
bucks?
During my internship, I have worked with firms that the president was there at the interview with a fantastic dog and pony
show, He was there at the signing of the contracts and there at the ribbing cutting ceremonies. He even walked around my
desk during the design and construction of the project. That's it. This should be a question you need to ask yourself at the
onset. Who really is doing the project.


2.      What is the going rate for Architectural services and what additional fees do we pay separately for the Design
Architects? What also is paid for the coordination of the Design Architect and the Exhibit designer. We understand that
the exhibit designer is paid separately for his services. For bookkeeping purposed could all exhibit design and design
Services be billed together? One important question is when and how do we assimilate the complete team. Any suggestions?

2a  You might have misinterpreted the design fee section somewhat. You do not pay extra for all services by the Design
Architect. In all contracts there is a Schematic, Concept, Design Development, Working drawings and Construction supervision
phases. When you hire the Design Architect (DA) to work with your Local Architect (LA) they split the basic fees for BASIC
SERVICES. Usually Schematic, Concept, Design Development go 80% to the (DA) and 20% of there portion to the (LA).
Architectural portions only! During the Construction Documents and Construction Supervision phase the fees are split 30% for
the (DA) and 70% for the (LA).The additional cost to the Design Architect comes during the end of the construction phase.
The (DA) at the end of the project is working hand in hand with the exhibit designer with the actual installation of the
exhibits. Because the (LA) has never done this they usually do not know how much time and what it takes for last minute
changes and actual hookup of all exhibits. The (DA) and the exhibit designer live there during the last weeks of
installation. That's why a
good relationship between (DA) and exhibit designer is important. The more they know how each works together the easier it
goes with the final installation. This service is usually additional and fees depend upon the project size and complexity.

2b   The additional services portion is where there is a difference. Building programming and Master planning are usually
done hourly with a not to exceed limit. If the local Architect has never completed several museums then leave this up to the
Design Architect. A good start leads to a good grand opening. The museum experience must be kept in mind at all times for
the museum to be successful. Exhibit design charrettes and exhibit programming are usually completed with the exhibit
designer and Design Architect. This is usually at a flat fee.

2c.   As far as fee structure, they are usually within one to two percent around the country. Renovations usually are higher
because you have to spend so much more time working around existing conditions. The existing structure must be measured up
and drawn correctly as it is the backbone of the project. Floor plans, elevations and building / wall sections must be
completed. This is usually a flat fee. Every artist likes a clean sheet of paper to work with. I kind of like the challenge
that some existing building types pose so I do not mind the renovation at all. Renovations go for 10% to 14% of construction
value for Basic Architectural Services. The higher fees are for more difficult building types or buildings that need allot
of work new construction can very from 9% to 11%. Remember you will usually get what you pay for.

2d. Fee structure can be arranged any way you want them. It depends on how you hire each group. Most A/E's will work that
out with you. If the (LA) wants to add a 10% surcharge for passing through the payments to the (DA, then you might want to
pay the (DA) separately and save the 10% markup.

2e. This one is a mouth full. I'm not sure which articles you have on selecting the design team. When where and how. Let me
know which ones you have and ill send you the right article. I have my preference but it depends on your situation. The
first thing to remember is to put the teams together at the earliest stage. The entire team needs to have impute to make for
a successful project. You are not going to Sears and Roebuck to buy a few exhibits and stuff them into a room left over by
the local architect. The building and exhibits need to play off themselves so they can work as one entity.

3.      We have also been approached by a developer, on the possibility of giving us a building of 80,000 square foot. Has
this been done before and what problems can happen? We are guessing that 80,000 to 85,000 square feet is adequate for our
purpose so the size does not seem to be a problem.

3a. Beware of the Trojan horse. Some gifts really are not a gift. I could spend hours on "horror stories" on this topic. To
keep it simple, I recently completed a complementary study for Diane Pedevillano Executive Director of the Mid Hudson
Children's Museum on an old warehouse building that was part of an old train station complex. The way the developer wanted
to divide the Victorian building and adjacent warehouses would have been a design fiasco. It would have been a financial
burden for the museum when you added up his price plus renovation cost. I'm sure Diane can explain all the particulars. She
can be reached at 1-914-297-5938. On the other hand, We completed another study for Nancy Johnson in Everett Washington.
They had two potential building that would have worked but one needless to say was far superior as a Children's Museum then
the other building. In lieu of taking up more computer time I am sure Nancy will expound upon this if you call her.  Nancy
can be reached at 1-425-258-1006.
One of the neatest buildings that we have had the opportunity to work on is the Mississippi State Children's Museum, in
Jackson Mississippi. This Romanesque / Gothic revival style building will be the showplace for the Mississippi State
Children's museum. Not that it
doesn't have it's own share of problems, especially site problems, but when completed will be one of the most unique
"Children's Castle".  Without studying your particular building and surrounding area this would be almost impossible to
evaluate and say if it's a good deal or not. Be careful.

4.      From talking with local firms they indicate that they have separate studios. In an Architectural firm what is meant by
Design studios, Production studios and Construction studios?

4.  Most large firms are very departmentalized by studios. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. When I was a
principal at the Washington group I was in-charge of the design studios. With over 300 people in four offices this was a zoo
looking for a circus. Not that it didn't have its advantages but the biggest drawback was once we completed the schematics,
Concepts and Design Developments then we had to hand it off too the construction Drawings Studio to put the working (Bid)
drawings together. Then it went to the Construction Studio to supervise the construction of the project. Sounds good but
think of the number of people that the projects are handed off too. This system lacks continuity from beginning to end.
That's why I ended up selling my shares and started over so I can do the design, working drawings and supervise the
construction. One source from beginning to end. Most projects have a Project Architect assigned to the job. He is supposed
to manage the project from beginning to end. If you have various "studios" on the job then what actual work is the project
Architect or manager really doing? Again who in the office has the experience? The principal, or employee?

5.      How do you deal with personalities between designers? We have heard that this can be a problems especially Prema-Donas.

5. How do you deal with personalities between designers? This is the hardest one of all. Yes there are Prema-Donas! And it
can be a problem. There is no easy solution especially from a non team player that knows it all. His/her way or no way. When
the outcome of the project depends upon a team approach the Prema-Dona can make for an interesting project. I do not know
what to saw but when personalities get in the way all suffer. One way is to get at least the Design Architect and Exhibit
designer as a team. If they have worked together before on several projects then at least one conflict wont exist. Then you
have to deal with the other party. Does he/she have any preconceived ideas? Sometimes Architects have a particular shape or
thing that they always wanted to try and use and will try to make your program fit there idea. They basically design from
the exterior to the interior and squeeze the interior exhibits to fit there shape. I can tell you when this happens its
trouble. The building should be designed around the exhibits, traffic flow and site situations. Think of the visitor from
start to finish. The museum experience.

6.      The package that we borrowed is pretty well chewed up. Do you have a web page and can we get copies of some of these
museums?

Sincerely,

Carol Baker President,

Ted Keatum CEO

Jacqueline Bess Chairman of the Board

6.      Yes. Send me your mailing address and I will send you fresh copies. Let me know how many copies you want?
My web page is http://www.architectsindesign.com
Follow the links through to the museum sections.

Hope this long winded dissertation is helpful. Let me know if you are still unclear on any item.

Sincerely:

William M. Greaves
President
Architects iN Design
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