Okay, I've stayed out of this, BUT....

I am of the opinion that if you don't feel something is applicable to
your particular "museum" situation JUST CLICK DELETE, as many of us do
most of the time when we see a subject line that we know holds no
interest for us. After reading the first post this morning on the topic,
I am aware throughout the rest of the day that all the other posts
coming into my mailbox with the same subject line are related. I hold no
ill will towards those who, oh, I don't know...work in science museums,
that may be interested in a topic that I am not. Just as I don't become
upset when someone asks questions about fire trucks or farm equipment. 



Rachel Talent Ivers
Registrar/Exhibitions Coordinator
Bass Museum of Art
2121 Park Avenue
Miami Beach, FL  33139
tel. 305.673.7530
fax 305.673.7062


-----Original Message-----
From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of unlisted
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:17 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: creationism


What does any of this have to do with museums?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sasha Carrera" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] creationism


> This may seem an odd question, but are there any other faiths that 
> take
> the
> Genesis version of how the world was created literally? You hear about
it
> being a purely Christian fundamentalist thing, I'm wondering if there
are
> Jewish or even Muslim groups that believe in Creationism too.
> Just wondering,
> Sasha
>
>
> On 8/3/05 12:19 PM, "Mark Janzen" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Rebecca,
>>
>> Yes, the "they" in this case are the pushers of Christian philosophy 
>> as science, largely embodied by the Discovery Institute. Sorry if 
>> that was not clear. I do indeed consider the movement rather 
>> sinister, but that is probably the result of my personal feelings on 
>> science and my love of my rights as an American.
>>
>> 1. Actually the proof is in the testing that has been done over the 
>> past 125 years. That is what people do not understand about the 
>> topic, and the central reason ID is not a competitor with evolution. 
>> No one is asking anyone to take science on "faith". Science presents 
>> the evidence, and allows it to speak for itself. If you do not think 
>> the evidence is sufficient, and you prefer to assume intelligent 
>> design, then so be it. Just do not call it science.
>>
>> 2. ID/creationism can not be disproved...it is faith. As a matter of
>> fact,
>> no one is trying to disprove it. It is the other way around.
Evolution is
>> definitely still "standing", as nothing has yet presented a
substantive
>> alternative.
>>
>> 3. Then you need to start laughing. That is exactly what ID says, but

>> not is so few words. They believe their point of view is true because

>> their book says so. End of discussion(from their end anyway).
>>
>> You are absolutely correct. Both science and religion are integral 
>> parts
>> of
>> human society and philosophy. We need both. However, what we also
need 
>> are
>> people who understand both, and where the dividing lines lie between 
>> them.
>> I do indeed hold both scientific and religious leaders in high
esteem, 
>> but
>> leading and making positive contribution is far different from being
the
>> one who shouts the loudest in a conversation.
>>
>> Making a place for our children to be exposed to both is what we were
>> just
>> talking about, and nothing is wrong with it at all. The point is that
it
>> needs to be done in the right place, and the science/biology
classroom is
>> not the place for both. The unscarred adults who have been exposed to

>> both
>> theories were exposed in the proper places, i.e. biology class and 
>> church.
>> The children who may be subjected to the travesty suggested by ID
>> proponents will definitely scar our children, and produce an
educational
>> blight that will be very difficult to eradicate once the mistake is
made.
>>
>> Indeed. We should certainly not allow the current confusion over the
>> nature
>> of the topic to enter into our interpretations and color the
information 
>> we
>> present to the public, whether they think it should be there or not.
>>
>> Mark Janzen
>> Registrar/Collections Manager
>> Edwin A. Ulrich Museum of Art
>> Martin H. Bush Outdoor Sculpture Collection
>> Wichita State University
>> (316)978-5850
>>
>>
>>
>>              Rebecca
>>              Fitzgerald
>>              <rafitzgerald@COM
>> To
>>              CAST.NET>                 [log in to unmask]
>>              Sent by: Museum 
>> cc
>>              discussion list
>>              <[log in to unmask] 
>> Subject
>>              SE.LSOFT.COM>             Re: A washingtonpost.com
article
>>                                        from: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>              08/03/2005 01:54
>>              PM
>>
>>
>>              Please respond to
>>              Museum discussion
>>                    list
>>              <[log in to unmask]
>>                SE.LSOFT.COM>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I like to remind people that this controversy is not about evolution

>>> or even science. It is about telling other people what they should 
>>> believe, and what is right and wrong.
>>
>> And this of course is the crux of most of the problems of the world. 
>> In every debate there are those on each side who feel that they're 
>> having the opposite view forced on them.
>>
>> By the way, who are "they?" In this case is "they" an organized group

>> pushing ID, or the millions of people who believe that that God 
>> created the universe and every thing in it, whether in a week, or by 
>> initiating that moment of creation - what some folks call the "big 
>> bang." Or is "they" some
>> other sinister group?
>>
>> Science and religion necessarily intersect in this discussion, since 
>> both consider our origin as part of their "turf." So, after many 
>> years of studying this debate, and reading all there is on the 
>> subject, I'm forced to
>> ask:
>> 1. Where's the proof? If science cannot produce the proof, then 
>> they're asking me to take it on faith. Hmmm...that's exactly what 
>> religion asks too. 2. If the authority is an evolution theory that's 
>> still standing, then I'd
>> have to say that no one has disproved creationism/ID yet either.
>> 3. If either side says, "Because I'm the "illustrious grand poobah"
and I
>> said so, well then, I'd have to laugh at their arrogance.
>>
>> We hold both our scientists and our religious leaders in high esteem.

>> Our world is much richer for both but they both have had their dark 
>> days. Frankly, we NEED both religion and science in our world today.
>>
>> What is wrong with teaching both theories? Why not make a place in 
>> our schools for students to be exposed to both? Virtually every adult

>> over the age of 45 WAS exposed to both theories - and it doesn't seem

>> that those generations were terribly scarred by the experience.
>>
>> Bringing this back to practical museum work - it's so easy to 
>> influence folks through museum exhibits and programming. I'm always 
>> humbled by the vast educational influence that we wield. It is so 
>> important that we "get it right" and avoid bending our exhibits and 
>> interpretation to the current politically correct viewpoint.
>>
>> Becky Fitzgerald
>> Susquehanna Museum
>>
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