Hi Indigo,

As we agree, this is preaching to the choir . . . <pun intended>

To play a counter-Devil's advocate:

    Who gets to decide which so-called "facts" are
    included or omitted, distorted or embellished,
    understated or overstated, created or denied?

Peter Novick's brilliant study of historical objectivity -- That Noble
Dream: The 'Objectivity Question' in the American Historical Profession
(Cambridge University Press, 1988) -- reveals that the basic so-called
"facts" of history are subjectively determined.  That's how we end up with
radically different histories from historians with radically different
agendas.  If "facts" in the recent past can be manipulated, surely
prehistorical "facts" regarding "Creation," recorded in the mythopoetic tome
called "the Bible," can be (and are) manipulated in the service of various
agendas.

So, how could they use "facts" to convince?  Faith is faith because, well,
it's not based on logical proof or material evidence.  It is illogical;
hence, an entire branch of psychology is devoted to reconciling how religion
functions with its inherent understanding that religious faith does not mean
(by default) that someone is psychologically unwell.

Best,
Jay





On 5/31/05 11:56 AM, "Indigo Nights" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Playing devil's advocate a tad here, do we want to
> censor groups?  Do we, in the interest of promoting
> enlightened thinking, want to offer multiple
> viewpoints so as to encourage others to do probative
> thinking or do we want to say we have thought,
> therefore it is?  Period.  No question.
> While I personally think ID makes for a great fairy
> tale (ok, where do I get a refund on all that happily
> ever after stuff?), I am a firm believer in evolution.
> But that doesn't mean I wouldn't be open to someone
> trying to convince me--with facts--to the contrary.
> If we squash such interactive participation, I think
> we lose a lot.  I think, however, the problem has been
> that those who promote ID, especially in the recent
> past, have made significant efforts at trying to
> squash talk of evolution.  That is equally unfair.

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