Uuummm..No. There is no room for a serious scientific study of intelligent
design in nature. There is plenty of room for farsical attempts to make ID
sound scientific enough to study, but nothing serious. To reiterate, ID can
not be tested scientifically. It is faith, not science.

It is not a matter of blithely rejecting a potential "theory", nor does it
have anything to do with the inherently "flawed" nature of human endeavor.
It is entirely about the simple fact that science and philosophy are
separate things which are not capable of clarifying one another. They can
inspire one another, but they can never interact on an explanatory level.

It is true that there are patterns in nature. It is true that those
patterns lead some to conclude that there is intelligence at work. It is
also indeed a fascinating line of inquiry. However, the issue at hand is
that all the questions have already been posed and answered concerning ID.
Scientifically it is a dead issue, and was so only moments after being
proposed. The problem is that proponents of it, who refuse to understand or
allow that their theory is based on faith and not science, continue to beat
the dead horse. As a result, people keep coming out to see why these odd
people are still beating the poor dead animal, and are so amazed that they
start thinking there might actually be a reason for the beating, so they
keep watching. Unfortunately, they do not go over and look at the now
twisted mass of flesh, preferring to watch from afar and therefore failing
to understand.

Sooner or later they will stop beating this particular animal, but that
will probably mean there is another unfortunate metaphorical beast about to
be beaten to death. My concern is how much intellectual damage they will do
in the meantime. How many trillions will we spend reeducating the masses of
school children who will not understand the critical basics of science when
they come into the workforce. How much damage will be done to our nation
and government before people realize what is going on.

Of course, if history runs true, we will all likely be among the first to
be rounded up for quiet disposal when our freedom of religion, speech,
assembly, etc. are revoked, and our complaints will fall on very deaf ears.

Sorry, listening to the president puts me in that kind of mood for some
reason.

Mark Janzen
Registrar/Collections Manager
Edwin A. Ulrich Museum of Art
Martin H. Bush Outdoor Sculpture Collection
Wichita State University
(316)978-5850


                                                                           
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Nowlin" <[log in to unmask]>

> What banner?  On the subject of cosmic and human origins, science does
not
> lead to god.  Other disciplines of thought lead to god, but not science.
> The banner belongs to those disciplines, not to science.

Stephen, I don't mean to imply that "Science" be some sort of seal of
approval--indeed it can't be, for the reason you state, that it is a
process
and not an monolithic entity unto itself.  I apologize if I was unclear on
that.

But at the same time, I'm amazed to read what you wrote here--that "science

does not lead to god."  Isn't that exactly the same kind of a priori
"argument from conclusion" that you accuse the IDers of making?  How can
you
be so sure science can't or won't lead to god, if not now than in the
future
as tools are developed?  Indeed, I just want to hear both sides being open
to the possibility that the questions raised--no matter who is raising
them--might be valid, and that the process will lead where the process
leads.  If there are patterns in nature that lead some to think that there
is an intelligent designer, then why not explore those patterns and explain

why those claimants are right or wrong?  That's all I'd ask, as an
interested layman and as an advocate of science.

Scientists have generated areas of inquiry from myriad sources--art, the
musings of philosophers, the dictates of religion, earlier science.  Once
scientists take over the question, they pursue a particular process--as
indeed they should, since it is the very definition of their disclipine.
But why ignore proponents of ID as particularly unworthy of asking
questions
that science might in fact have some answers to--if not now, then later?
That's an intellectual blind spot that I don't understand.  I suspect it
has
to do with not wanting to come across as "validating" ID--but that
reluctance would be a shame, to me, because it would be choking off a
fascinating vein of inquiry.

I'll go back to the question I posed above--is there room for a serious
scientific study of the possibility of intelligent design in nature?  What
if it should turn out to be the aliens that Art referred to in another
message, and not God at all?

Peace,

--Eric

Eric D. M. Johnson
Proprietor
The Village Factsmith Historical Research & Consulting
http://www.factsmith.com/
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