Eric,
I do apologize. Today has not been good so far, and I have been allowing it
to impact my reactions. I was not trying to be condescending, just very
clear.
I realize you are not trying to generate animosity, and I have none for
you, nor for anyone who chooses to take a creationist perspective.
I take the ID topic very seriously, because it is one that I do not believe
many people truly grasp as a critical theme in our current educational and
social surroundings. If we as a group of educated professionals can not
help our fellows on this list understand science and what it can and can
not do, then how are we going to express those things to the public.
Perhaps the question, which has been posed a time or two, is whether we
should even try. I believe we should.
Clearly for some science does not speak for itself, for whatever reason. I
do not take it as my position to find out why any one individual fails to
understand science. I take it as my place to inform them of the facts and
let them decide. Otherwise it is just going to turn into a "you said, he
said, so what" argument.
I do not know what you were taught as an undergraduate, but I am suspecting
we are not talking about the same thing. I apologize for not understanding
what you were trying to say. There is no need for us to agree to disagree.
All that means is that one or the other of us gave up or is incapable of
understanding, and I do not give up easily.
Personally, I love exploring the notion of ID and a wide variety of other
philosophical attacks on rationality. That is precisely why I respond to
posts concerning it, as well as why I get so invested in the responses. It
is definitely worth investigating as a philosophical concept. It is however
not a new concept, so it does not take very long. I will assume you are not
referring to it as an intriguing scientific principle. If that is where you
wish to agree to disagree, then by all means.
Thanks for the discussion.
Mark Janzen
Registrar/Collections Manager
Edwin A. Ulrich Museum of Art
Martin H. Bush Outdoor Sculpture Collection
Wichita State University
(316)978-5850
Eric Johnson
<ejohnson@FACTSMI
TH.COM> To
Sent by: Museum [log in to unmask]
discussion list cc
<[log in to unmask]
SE.LSOFT.COM> Subject
Re: For those interested in
understanding evolution and ID . .
06/30/2005 01:41 .
PM
Please respond to
Museum discussion
list
<[log in to unmask]
SE.LSOFT.COM>
Mark, I'm sorry that you felt the need to resort to condescension in your
response. I'm certainly not trying to goad you; I'm just trying to
understand where you're coming from. Additionally, I'm sorry to see that
as
far as you're concerned, there can be no further developments in this
area--no possibility for error or revision. That certainly isn't the
approach to science that I learned as an undergraduate. I find the notion
of intelligent design (as opposed to Intelligent Design), whether natural
or
supernatural, to be intriguing and worth exploring.
Luckily, we can agree to disagree and probably neither of us will be worse
the wear for it!
Take care,
--Eric
Eric D. M. Johnson
Proprietor
The Village Factsmith Historical Research & Consulting
http://www.factsmith.com/
[log in to unmask]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Janzen" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] For those interested in understanding evolution and
ID . . .
> Eric,
>
> Please pay attention. I shall reiterate for your benefit...
>
> ID can not be tested scientifically. It is faith, not science. The issue
> that is always ignored is that ID is a dead issue scientifically, as it
> has
> already asked its questions and been shown to be empty of scientific
> meaning. There is nothing there to test, even if it were testable.
>
> That would be why on earth not.
>
> The fact that there are patterns in nature and that some people are
> confused into interpreting that as design is not supportive of the
theory,
> which is why it was mentioned. In addition, the fascinating line of
> inquiry
> is why people are so easily confused by ID, not ID itself. I apologize if
> I
> did not make that clear.
>
> Mark Janzen
> Registrar/Collections Manager
> Edwin A. Ulrich Museum of Art
> Martin H. Bush Outdoor Sculpture Collection
> Wichita State University
> (316)978-5850
>
>
>
> Eric Johnson
> <ejohnson@FACTSMI
> TH.COM> To
> Sent by: Museum [log in to unmask]
> discussion list cc
> <[log in to unmask]
> SE.LSOFT.COM> Subject
> Re: For those interested in
> understanding evolution and ID . .
> 06/30/2005 12:42 .
> PM
>
>
> Please respond to
> Museum discussion
> list
> <[log in to unmask]
> SE.LSOFT.COM>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Janzen" <[log in to unmask]>
>
>> Uuummm..No. There is no room for a serious scientific study of
> intelligent
>> design in nature.
>
> Why on earth not? You say it yourself:
>
>> It is true that there are patterns in nature. It is true that those
>> patterns lead some to conclude that there is intelligence at work. It is
>> also indeed a fascinating line of inquiry.
>
> So why not pursue it?
>
> --Eric
>
> Eric D. M. Johnson
> Proprietor
> The Village Factsmith Historical Research & Consulting
> http://www.factsmith.com/
> [log in to unmask]
>
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