Dear Mr. Reed,

Thank you, thank you, thank you, for your response.  I was getting tired
of being chewed apart!

Elizabeth

On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, reedjm wrote:

>         Usually, when a discussion with as many replies as this one comes
> through my e-mail, I begin deleting them after the first few.  This argument,
> however, has aroused my and others interest.  The following is a response to
> this string of messages.
>         I, and a fellow museum studies grad, agree with what Elizabeth said
> about the attitude on this list.  Wages in a museum for a beginning professional
> are rather low when compared to wages received by other arts and sciences degree
> holders.  Not that this has anything to do with why I want to work in this
> field.  I knew that I could be paid more working as a tradesman on a
> construction site, but that is not what gives me a sense of fulfillment.  I am
> willing to sacrifice a lot of money to work in this field.
>         We realize that there are a lot of graduates out there competing for a
> handful of jobs, but this is not what really upsets us.  Our program emphasized
> volunteering and interning at area museums, historical societies, archives, etc.
>  We were told beforehand that experience like this would aid in acquiring a job
> and that we should expect a tough time landing that first job.  What really
> upsets us is the fact that there are a number of people on this list that
> believe a degree is not needed to work as a museum professional.
>         Many of the jobs advertised in museums, galleries, archives, societies,
> etc. all require at the minimum a Bachelor's.  Some require a Master's and a few
> even prefer a Ph.D..  This is why, in our opinion, so many universities are
> offering advanced degrees in museum studies or equivalent programs.  If you
> follow the argument that an advanced degree is not needed, then natural history
> museums shouldn't hire all those anthropologists and archaeologists.
>         As museum visitors and volunteers, we have seen many mistakes made in
> exhibit designs, collections care, and ethics.  While some of these were made by
> people with advanced degrees, the majority of the mistakes existed because of
> the lack of professional education and training.  Any museum that accepts
> donations does so with the idea that they would care for these collections for
> perpetuity.  If the people in the museum do not have the education or training
> to accomplish this, then the integrity of the museum will be lost and donations
> as well as support will diminish.  At a time of limited funding, can any type of
> museum afford this?  Does it have to reflect on the lack of training and
> education in order to keep up with the budget?  Yes, I know some museums are
> lacking in funds, especially smaller ones, but would you rather have trained
> professionals running your museum or have ones who proclaim they know what they
> are doing, while diminishing those of us who actually have a advanced degree and
> are still proud, creative, imaginative, and passionate about their career?  Let
> me leave you with a small quote from a local museum that was displayed for the
> public.  A small display giving details of a particular area in prehistoric time
> had a picture of a dinosaur with the label reading, "Dinosaur a Greek word for
> dinosaur!"
>         Now that we have vented our frustrations, please do not black ball us
> from your hiring list.
>         Joseph M. Reed and Jennifer Flint
>         Fire Protection Publications Archives
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
> Subject: Re: seeking: ENTRY-LEVEL JOB (fwd)
> Author:  Elizabeth Anne Hanson <[log in to unmask]> at IMA
> Date:    6/18/98 3:21 PM
>
>
> Dear Mr. Morris,
>
> Thanks for the note.  At first I was nervous about being so blunt, but I
> decided I had to be.  I have not given up on a museum job, but I am
> willing to look other places.  I am forcing myself to be realistic.  The
> attitude on museum-l bothers me for
> several reasons.
>
> First, just because something exists, its existence is not justified.  For
> example, expecting people to work for poverty wages and require them to
> have a graduate education is ridiculous. How many jobs have you seen
> that pay $19,000 and require at least a MA?  Now I am not asking that I
> make
> million of dollars, but it is NOT unreasonable for me to expect to make
> enough money to pay my loans, feed and cloth myself, and provide a roof
> over my head.  Women, and most museum professionals are women, no longer
> have the luxury of marrying rich and have their husbands provide for
> themselves so they can go off and pursue their interests.
>
> Second, I think that universities are graduating too many people.  I think
> graduate programs should be harder and accept less people.
>
> Third, museums might as well stop collecting things if they cannot afford
> to pay for people to take care of them.  As part of their non-profit
> status they have an obligation to properly care for the items bestowed
> upon them.
>
> Fourth, so many of these unpaid internships only allow limited learning.
> For example, so many students spend their time at the copy machine instead
> of putting their educations into use.  I am one of the fortune ones.  I
> was handed a collection of over 1000 objects and told to finish all of the
> collections management.  In return I have unlimited access to the
> collection to use for my MA thesis. I am truly treated like a staff member
> and not an intern.
>
>
> You are right "deserve" is a shakey word.  But I know that I will get paid
> better and maybe even treated better in other fields.  There is a much
> lower work standard in the musuem field than other places.
>
> I think that many people on this list think that a number of us
> recent grads or current grads think we are all a bunch of babies who want
> free carrots.  This, I repeat, is not the case.  But getting paid for work
> is not a CRAZY concept.  Work in exchange for money is a NORMAL
> expectation.  But the road to museum employment is a crazy balancing act.
> You have to have experience, but you can't get
> experience without an education and vice versa.
>
> Things will never change if voices are never concerned.  But we can't just
> complain.  We have to be very clear about our ideas and goals. No one
> likes a wishy washy person.
>
> I am learning that so much of life is chance.  By chance I got a part-time
> job at a Foundation that supports grass roots groups dealing with poverty,
> welfare and the like. We are living in a world that believes that if you
> work hard you succeed and if
> you did not succeed you must not have worked hard.  Some people work hard
> their whole lives and never achieve success due to circumstances beyond
> their control.  But I know that giving up is not the answer, but a healthy
> dose of realism is required.
>
>
> Elizabeth
>
>
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> >
> >
>