Michael is correct that it is important to be able to discuss issues. I may be being a little oversensitive. A few years ago on this list it seemed that when facial expressions weren't seen and voice inflections were imagined by the reader that the conversation quickly turned to name calling and very harsh comments. I didn't want my post to turn into that. It's the concern for religious and political issues having to do with Native Americans and centuries of ignoring or attempting to squelch their culture that caused my question. I just didn't want to start something ugly.
Thanks again for the input.
Jerrie
Jerrie Clarke
Director
Lost City Museum
PO Box 807
Overton, NV 89040
(702) 397-2193
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 3/31/15, Shoup, Michael Allen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] Letting Paranormal Groups Use the Museum
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2015, 7:38 PM
Jerrie,
I'm glad you appreciate my
differing view and I appreciate yours, but I must disagree
with the idea that we shouldn't have discussions that
debate political and religious issues. These are incredibly
important issues that are central to public history and
museums. We have increasingly created a society in which
individuals can avoid these sorts of discussions and
surround themselves with folks who think and speak as they
do. Far from creating a society that is less conflictual, it
creates a more polarized society, in which individuals are
less able to politely debate important issues. This leads to
more, not less of the sort of conflict you seek to avoid
here.
Simply put: your
question necessarily means we must delve into religious and
political issues. That's a good thing, not a bad thing,
and we need not run from issues that run the risk of
eliciting strong opinions. In fact, that's precisely
what we should be doing, both here and in museums.
Mike
________________________________________
From:
Museum discussion list [[log in to unmask]]
on behalf of Jerrie Clarke [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 8:06 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] Letting Paranormal
Groups Use the Museum
Thank
you for your explanation and comments, Michael; and thanks
to all who commented. I was looking for examples and/or
policies on paranormal investigators as I make the decision
to allow an investigation in my museum and maintain respect
to the ancient and current Native Americans and their
beliefs and feeling. I've received some good feedback.
I'd like to not turn my question into a political or
religious argument. We've had too many of them in the
past; and anyone who has watched this list for very long
will remember that it can get ugly very quickly. Please
let's keep this List a nice calm place to ask or answer
questions, share experiences, and to express opinions in a
collegial manner.
Thanks
again.
Jerrie
Jerrie Clarke
Director
Lost City Museum
PO Box 807
Overton, NV 89040
(702)
397-2193
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 3/31/15, Shoup, Michael Allen <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
Subject: Re:
[MUSEUM-L] Letting Paranormal Groups Use the Museum
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2015, 4:57 PM
Correct,
science is not precisely a belief system.
However, it
frequently requires
belief/faith. We could take nearly every
experiment and find faith of some sort that particular
conditions will remain constant as they have
been within
the universe for the tiny speck
of time for which we have
some shreds of
knowledge. These assumptions are rife with
and rooted in faith. If we cannot explain the conditions
which render this apparent
constancy and precision in the universe, we must
attribute
our assumptions to a measure of
faith. In many cases, a
great deal of
faith. And in the case of so many of these
phenomena, we have no explanations for why these apparent
constants are constant. We
just accept it and accept that it will continue. On
faith.
Dave's cautionary words that plead for a
bit of
humility on this topic are
well-founded, as are his
cautionary words
with reference to the encounters of Native
Americans with our museums. It should be readily apparent
how problematic an earlier assertion
was with regards to closing off whole
portions of museums
to those immersed in
the "non-scientific" world of
spirits. The interesting question is why folks are quite
willing to compartmentalize their hostility to
supernatural
beliefs, depending upon the
particular
audience holding these
supernatural beliefs.
From: Museum discussion
list
[[log in to unmask]]
on behalf of Stephen Nowlin
[[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015
3:41 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L]
Letting Paranormal Groups Use
the Museum
topladave said:
There is a
long and ancient
history in what I call the
History of Belief. It spans
everything from
belief in Ghosts and the supernatural to
Religions to Spirituality, and you can add the newcomer,
Science, in there too.
----------------------
Science is not a belief
system. The so-called concept
of
“scientism” is a sham, wielded to imply that the
schism between science and magical beliefs is
just an
argument between equals. I may
think that resuscitation is
preferable to
prayer as an approach
to someone who has
stopped breathing — that doesn’t
make
me a practitioner of “resuscitationism.” I like
Neil deGrasse Tyson’s quote: “Science is
what you
don’t have to believe in for it
to be true.”
/stephen
S t e p h e
n N o w l i
n
Vice
President
Director, Alyce de Roulet
Williamson
Gallery
626.396.2397 |
http://williamsongallery.net/google
P a s a d e n a — C I t y
o f A r
t & S c I e n c e
From: "topladave
." <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: Museum
discussion list <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tuesday, March
31, 2015 at 10:06 AM
To: Museum discussion
list
<[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [Caution:
Redirect URLs] Re: [MUSEUM-L] Letting
Paranormal Groups Use
the Museum
I cover the
whole range of these issues in the online
course that I teach on this topic, and have sections on
"What are Parnormal
Investigations?", "Museum
Policies and Programs", and "Pros and Cons of
Investigations".
Let me just reply to one
point that has come up. There is a
long and
ancient history in what I call the History of
Belief. It spans everything from belief in
Ghosts and the
supernatural to Religions to
Spirituality, and you can add
the newcomer,
Science, in
there too. So while including
the paranormal or spiritual
in activities
around a Science Museum may not be in context,
it certainly would in an Art or History Museum
where there
are topics and themes that can
intersect the topic. And I
know a number of
colleagues
who argue that Museums should
be ALL about Science, While I
love Science
and apply it widely in my work as a
conservator, human culture and art has a far wider range
of
perspectives and experiences beyond that
which can be tested
and measured in labs. I
would
proffer that many Native Americans,
in particular, do not
have a good history
with Science and have fought long legal
cases to repatriate their historic human remains from
"Science". So I would be cautious
about raising
that to any Tribe concerning
sensitive
sacred collections in your
institution. Here is a recent
blog on that
issue:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/american-anthropological-association/rest-for-the-king-no-rest-for-native-americans_b_6946396.html?utm_hp_ref=tw
Each museum or historic site
has to make up their own minds
on whether
to allow paranormal investigations, tours, or
programs in your institution. Some do and some
don't. In
the online course I teach I
do not advocate for any side in
this. I
strive to give
museum professionals
information so that they can come to
their
own policies that best suits them.
If any of you would like your
policies or experiences with
this topic to
be shared with participants in my course
please contact me off the list. I am always looking to
add
to the examples from all perspectives
on this.
Cheers!
Dave
David Harvey
Senior
Conservator & Museum Consultant
Los Angeles CA USA
www.cityofangelsconservation.weebly.com
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