Hello, I am not part of the search committee, but have been told that the 
resume pile is over a foot thick!  I hope someone is hired soon as we just 
began building a new museum two months ago.

Marielle



**********************
Marielle Fortier
Museum Registrar
Norwich University
Vermont
**********************





>From: Robert Fuhrman <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Museum discussion list <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: public history grad program-Norwich Registrar
>Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 11:58:49 -0400
>
>Hello,
>
>Read your post and noticed you are at Norwich-any word on their director
>search?
>
>Thanks,
>
>B Fuhrman
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>Behalf Of Marielle Fortier
>Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 11:45 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: public history grad program
>
>Hello,  I wanted to add my two cents.  I graduated from college with a
>BA in
>history in Dec 2000.  I had done two internships in college with local
>museums. In Oct. 2001 I was hired for a year contract to move a museum.
>They
>had hired a conservator to train me in proper handling of objects.
>Thanks
>to this conservator she found me all of the museum jobs I have held
>since.
>Living in Vermont makes it tough to find full time museum work. The
>majority
>of our museums are local Historical Societies and are not commonly
>heated
>during the winter months.  My resume is peppered with museum contracts
>during the warm months and a variety of odd jobs to fill the cold
>months.
>(given I only gave out that resume to the odd jobs, and kept a special
>copy
>of my resume with only museum jobs). The current job I am in (that my
>mentor/ conservator friend helped with) has turned from a year contract
>to a
>full time, salaried with benefits, and a retirement plan job.  I was
>just
>hired full time 8/15/05 and am super excited.
>
>I don't know if this adds to the argument that you don't need a MA to
>get
>that dream job...I just know that a position like this does not come
>around
>often in the Vermont museum world. The one thing I learned about museum
>work
>is it is not about the money.  We do it because we love it and want to
>preserve the past. I feel we fit in with teacher...underpaid, overworked
>and
>very important to the younger generations.
>
>I think the contacts we make are very important to help find the next
>job.
>So for the baby boomers who are worried that the fresh graduates are out
>for
>your job...change your way of thinking that you have a chance to help
>mentor
>and guide these fresh grads into important museum jobs (when you retire,
>and
>so when you do you can sleep well at night knowing the collections are
>all
>in good hands!!)
>
>Marielle
>
>
>**********************
>Marielle Fortier
>Museum Registrar
>Norwich University
>Vermont
>**********************
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Megan Kirkpatrick <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: Museum discussion list <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: public history grad program
> >Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:09:40 -0400
> >
> >I do believe that new professionals can find jobs in our field right
> >now.  I graduated from a museum studies graduate program in May with 14
> >other individuals.  I believe there are only 2 still looking for jobs,
> >and one is looking at 2 offers.  As long as one is willing to move the
> >distance and be flexible, there are jobs to be found.  Maybe I'm young
> >and optimistic, but I'm employed and will soon be eligible for a
> >retirement package.  I would not discourage people entering the field,
> >but only caution that it's not going to make you rich and you don't
> >necessarily get to choose the city you want to live in.
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> >Behalf Of Pamela Silvestri
> >Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 2:36 AM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] public history grad program
> >
> >
> >
> >Good points you make. But, there are so many babyboomers that even if
> >3/4 stay on working, enough jobs are going to be able to open up. At
>the
> >same time there are new positions being created. I am a babyboomer btw,
> >though at the tail end.
> >
> >
> >
> >I should have pointed out that most of the museum jobs I was referring
> >to and have applied to are at the state and federal level. My immediate
> >supervisor is set to retire in 2 years (she'll be 54). A friend of my
> >who worked at a state university (not a museum job) was offered a
> >'golden handshake' and couldn't resist. She was 45 and started working
> >there when she was 19.
> >
> >
> >
> >At 80% of her salary and full bennies! - no need to look for other work
> >or plenty opportunity to start a new career. So not everyone is going
>to
> >have to depend on SS benefits, though many of us still will.
> >
> >
> >
> >Everyday, I am online looking for museum work. I check about 10
> >different websites daily. There ARE a lot of museum jobs. The 'new
> >museology', a direct result of the phenomena of post-nationalism, is
> >truly amazing. We are at, or close to the 'hey-day' for museums.
> >Maintaining interest with the younger generation is vital, and I think
> >all of us are doing a great job with this. Renewed patriotism in more
> >recent times has been a great boost.
> >
> >
> >
> >For a book pertaining to this subject I highly recommend: Zulaika,
> >Joseba. Guggenheim Bilbao Museoa. Museums, Architecture, and City
> >Renewal. Center for Basque Studies, University of Nevada, Reno 2003.
> >
> >
> >
> >It is true that the low paying, volunteer, etc., work is soooo
>difficult
> >and hurts the SS earnings and quarters. I am VERY aware of SS earnings
> >as two years ago I had to go on SS Disability in order to have Medicare
> >to pay for eye surgery that I have had to put off for 15 years. I
>simply
> >could not put this off any longer.
> >
> >
> >
> >As I mentioned before, many of the issues I have faced with securing
> >employment in a museum have been my own doing (or not doing). Being out
> >of the workforce for 2 years has hurt too. It kills me when I see
>people
> >who are applying for jobs that I am trying to get, that already have
> >good jobs and they are just simply doing lateral transfers, etc. But I
> >can't be bitter over that because they are certainly entitled, etc.,
>and
> >have their own circumstances. But I did once find myself wanting to
> >scream, 'Wait, look over here, hello I am making nothing'.
> >
> >
> >
> >Thanks to the internet, I can keep track of what's going on. For many
>of
> >these jobs I've applied for, I have gone onto the museum's website and
> >have found the names of the people who were hired for jobs I applied
> >for. Then I can do a search for their names and find out more
> >information. I do this to assist in my job search. So for one, the
> >person's name came up so many times in the search. Tons of newspaper
> >articles and clearly, this person had done a lot of wonderful work and
> >was well qualified.
> >
> >
> >
> >I'm not looking to see whether the person is well-qualified to see if I
> >was considered fairly or not, but I'm comparing their background to
>mine
> >and I'm looking to see what else I would need to be competitive. All
>the
> >people I have found so far who are getting these jobs, are not
> >unemployed. And often I can find what job they left, and as far as I
>can
> >tell that they were doing related (non-museum) work, and are moving
>into
> >full-fledged museum work (was interesting to note). But they do have
> >related MA's and it looks like they may have had to accept other types
> >of related work (perhaps at the time they were looking for museum work,
> >there was nothing much available).
> >
> >
> >
> >Whenever I can find what position they have held before, interestingly
> >enough I discovered that the jobs these people are leaving, are jobs
> >that I do not qualify for and they are high-profiling, good paying
> >positions. So I do think this is really curious. But also, this clearly
> >indicates that you have a better chance of getting a job if you already
> >have a (paying) job.
> >
> >
> >
> >One of the last jobs I applied for was a museum at a state university.
>I
> >searched the internet and found all the 2004 salaries (from professors
> >to maintenance workers) for every employee at that university. I found
> >the salary for the person that held the position that I was applying
> >for.
> >
> >
> >
> >Based on that (and in another search I determined that this person had
> >worked there for 8 years) I was able to figure a salary I could
> >negotiate for if I were offered the job. So I went up just a tad from
> >the starting salary for the position, but went lower than that of the
> >person vested 8 years. Once again, I never got to the point of salary
> >negotiations. I'll be ready though when the opportunity arises.
> >
> >
> >
> >I was trying to stay 'calm' during my recent job searches but it hasn't
> >been easy to do so. Not only am I very anxious to get back to work in
> >general, but it looked like I wasn't going to be able to send my son to
> >college this year if I didn't get a job and quick. I'd have to say that
> >this broke my heart like never before. Of course I could foresee this
> >occurrence years earlier and tried to prevent the possibility, but to
> >have it become a realization was something I never felt before and
> >really can't put into words.
> >
> >
> >
> >Without any of these jobs materializing,  I quickly got my motherly
> >instincts refocused and went right over to the college and calmly asked
> >for more financial aid for my son. Although I still have to pay a bit,
>I
> >managed an extra 10k! After the FA counselor made the offer, I broke
> >down and finally cried over all this.
> >
> >
> >
> >Back to my point about my job search - I'm sure my anxiety and
> >desperation showed through during my interviews...I was sooo nervous.
> >People who are already in a job or otherwise not in a desperate
> >situation have a far better chance of getting these jobs. Often, they
> >don't have the stress to be out of work, may be going for a higher
> >salary, etc., and simply give a 2-week notice.
> >
> >
> >
> >Now that I am calm and my son is entering college, I am focusing on
>what
> >I need to do to get a full-time, permanent museum job (not the
> >volunteer, small grant, possible seasonal funding which is down from
> >possible full-time to, 'maybe' 3k). I have a whole different
>perspective
> >now. If I have to volunteer and/or do an internship to update my
>skills,
> >I'll do it. Then I'll start applying for museum work again (and keep
> >trying to calm down already).
> >
> >
> >
> >I know I am not the only one out there in this situation. And I will
> >certainly have to work beyond retirement age just to pay off my once
> >dinky student loan.
> >
> >
> >
> >I have suffered through a lot. Five years of being a full-fledged
> >(waitressing,and working at a hospital too) shovel bum had left me with
> >everything from lumbar spinal stenosis to Lyme disease. I went several
> >years undiagnosed with the spine condition because not too many people
> >in their 30's get that. So now you know, Micki that I AM one of the
> >people you are referring to! I have experienced the occupational
>effects
> >from this work. But I'm all patched up and ready to go!
> >
> >
> >
> >I have to disagree with you about doing volunteer work though. I have
> >faithfully volunteered for one museum for 10 years now. Every year - a
> >used book sale and X-Mas craft show fundraisers -I inventoried all
>their
> >Indian artifacts, among other projects.
> >
> >
> >
> >Unfortunately, all volunteer work does is quite the opposite of what
>you
> >might think. It tells a potential employer that you are willing to work
> >for free (so why should they pay you 40k+ a year) and that you perhaps
> >aren't 'good' enough to do paid work.
> >
> >
> >
> >If you are looking for museum work and want to volunteer your time, you
> >are far better off with a short-term internship, even if it's unpaid.
> >The reason for this is that potential employers know that an
>established
> >internship usually requires that the intern work under the supervision
> >of a professional with at least an MA.
> >
> >
> >
> >In small, all-volunteer museums, you are less likely to work in a
> >state-of-the art, professional environment. There are exceptions, of
> >course and I have spent a lot of the last 10 years learning from a
> >Museum Director (and town historian) who has a Ph.D. She's in her 80's
> >and retired. I do make sure I properly use her title when I list her as
> >a reference.
> >
> >
> >
> >I volunteer for my own personal benefit (something productive) and
>those
> >who benefit from my much needed work. So on one hand, I may express my
> >need to volunteer in order to maintain my skills but I it is not the
>way
> >to go for museum employment.
> >
> >
> >
> >And being a research junkie, I have studied volunteerism while I was a
> >VISTA volunteer and when I worked on my social services degree. While I
> >was a VISTA volunteer -is where I learned about grant writing and many
> >other skills that I have been able to apply to museum work. People
> >volunteer for many reasons, but it does not aid in an effort to pursue
> >professional work. It did get me a nice barrister bookcase that the
> >museum no longer needed.
> >
> >
> >
> >Now you see that perhaps the reason I can't get the 'right' job is
> >because I am seriously a total research junkie, maniac employee that
> >none of you out there in their right mind would consider hiring (no
>sah,
> >just kiddin' I'm not that bad) . But I am taking a leap of faith with
> >sharing my personal experiences here to get some points across, and I
> >would like to hope that my name hasn't ended up alongside the word
> >'Delete' on your keyboard! And besides, I know that many of you are
>also
> >really totally serious research junkies that are working like maniacs
>on
> >dozens of projects!
> >
> >
> >
> >Pam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 8/22/2005 9:12:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >[log in to unmask] writes:
> >
> >Oh dear, Pamela. You anticipate older baby boomers on the brink of
> >retirement to move out of their jobs? They, but obviously not you, are
> >all too keenly aware that Social Security moves further and further
>from
> >their grasp, now requiring people to work until they are nearly 70.
>When
> >Social Security does kick in, the payment does not begin to replace
> >earned income, due primarily to the part-time, low wage and
>employed/not
> >employed insecurity of museum work. Retirement plan? A great idea, but
> >not one that museums tend to think is worth the trouble. Nest egg? When
> >property taxes rise to skyscraper height, when aging brings not only
>the
> >comfort of a life much enjoyed but the expenses of medical crises--
> >replacement knees from carrying those heavy boxes of archives, for
> >example, and dealing with cancer or diabetes complications-- or the
>loss
> >of spousal retirement plans and retired employee health insurance,
> >absence of domestic partner recognition for benefits, the expense of
> >helping your grown kids out when they lose their high-tech jobs, then
> >their unemployment and health insurance, then their house... the nest
> >empties its eggs pretty rapidly.
> >
> >
> >
> >No, all of these things have not happened to me (yet), but I've seen
>all
> >of them in the lives of colleagues all around me, and I'm pretty sure I
> >will be lying in a pine box before I can consider quitting work.  This
> >phenomenon of hard to find jobs is not limited to the museum or public
> >history world, and not limited to recent graduates or  ambitious youth.
> >Times have changed, big time, and we are all caught in the world we
> >created, one that pours money into wasteful war, looks the other way at
> >executive stealing, and tolerates a "me and only me" attitude
>throughout
> >every layer of society around the world. We're not approaching an
> >economic crisis, we are smack in the middle of it, and losing more
> >daily.  I see money out there, cruelly used in many cases and simply
> >insensibly used in others. But I don't see it being used to solve the
> >acute economic problems we face at this moment.
> >
> >
> >
> >However, I do agree with you on one important point: it is indeed rare
> >for a job to go to the best qualified person. I think it is that "me
>and
> >only me" phenomenon that puts incompetent people in places of
>leadership
> >and relative high income; people reward their friends in return for
> >something for themselves.  It is cruel for those with the power to hire
> >and fire to withhold a job from someone who upsets the status quo by
> >working to her best capacity! And, it perpetuates both this lopsided,
> >unfair system of rewards and growing acceptance of incompetence.
> >
> >
> >
> >At this moment in time, I don't know what to advise a young person
> >seeking museum or public history work. The museums are not all going to
> >close, so there will be work there.  There is benefit in doing any kind
> >of paid work (or volunteer for that matter, but volunteering puts
> >nothing on the dinner table); you learn the discipline of working to
> >someone else's line, you build a network. I've been surprised at the
> >growth of museum studies programs in recent years, and just as
>surprised
> >when I see how little the graduates have learned. I think there are as
> >many well qualified, competent grads as there have always been-- but
> >because there are more grads there are more average and below average
> >grads, and fewer non-profit museums too (but a huge increase in
>industry
> >supported ones).
> >
> >
> >
> >Anyone have other thoughts? How can we encourage good students,
> >excellent teachers and competent grads, because we do need them to
>carry
> >museums into the future. Has there been a sea change in museum
> >expectations, favoring less competence, or favoring for-profit
> >sensibilities?  Where are the models for dealing with a surplus of
> >graduates in such a specialized field? Does there need to be a big
> >change in the way Museum Studies and Public History are taught? Uh oh,
> >where is Pogo when we need him?
> >
> >
> >
> >Micki Ryan
> >
> >Museum & Archival Services
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Pamela Silvestri, Museum Assistant
> >Northeast States Civilian Conservation Corps Museum
> >Shenipsit State Forest
> >166 Chestnut Hill Road
> >Stafford Springs, Connecticut 06076
> >(860) 684-3430
> >
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