Nina,
I agree. I am almost constantly accused of exactly that by my more faithful
friends. I disabuse them of the notion, but it normally does not take. In
my experience, a person who takes a fundamentalist Christian point of view,
such as with ID, constructs their entire worldview around their faith. In
order to understand something, it must be couched in those terms, or it is
alien and suspect. They can not grasp that someone can live their lives
without worship or religious faith, so they conflate science into a
religion in order to try and grasp a worldview that values science above
other pursuits. Some are definitely trying to denigrate science by
referring to it as a "religion" while ironically twisting the meaning of
faith into something dirty and low, but others are simply trying to fit
what they can not or will not understand into their overall worldview in a
meaningful way. It is often very hard to tell the difference.
In my personal opinion, what they always miss, and what Tim's comment does
not take into account, is that no one worships science. Science has no
voice of its own and no independent being. It does not control the
universe, create life, or enact miracles for our wonder and benefit.
Science is simply a logical exploration of what is. It provides
understanding and utility within the physical world, but it completely
ignores anything that can not be understood through testing and
observation. When people tell me I place "faith" in science(implied rather
than in God/JC), I typically agree, but I note for their benefit that
science, like faith, is a journey, not a destination. The primary
difference is that science is a nearly infinite journey of discovery of the
physical universe, which no one person could ever hope to complete or
contain. Faith on the other hand is a journey entirely within ones own mind
and heart, where science can not go, and an exploration which every
thinking individual makes, from beginning to end, within their lifetimes.
The end of their lifetime typically denoting the end of the journey,
whether or not heaven/hell come into the picture. I do get a few people
arguing that their faith has real physical manifestations, and thus crosses
that line, but they have yet to show me how.
If humanity does ever have the opportunity to communicate in some meanigful
way with an alien race, the biggest question(s) will likely revolve around
their worldview. We just have to hope that that worldview does not involve
the wholesale consumption of other "intelligent" species, or we could be in
trouble.
Mark Janzen
Registrar/Collections Manager
Edwin A. Ulrich Museum of Art
Martin H. Bush Outdoor Sculpture Collection
Wichita State University
(316)978-5850
Nina
Stoyan-Rosenzweig
<[log in to unmask] To
LTH.UFL.EDU> [log in to unmask]
Sent by: Museum cc
discussion list
<[log in to unmask] Subject
SE.LSOFT.COM> Re: For those interested in
evolution AND Intelligent Design .
. .
07/01/2005 03:20
PM
Please respond to
Museum discussion
list
<[log in to unmask]
SE.LSOFT.COM>
I have been working on a complex and thoughtful response that treats all
respondents respectfully, but am throwing all that away to say that
given the structure of the questions and the way science approaches
external reality it is still not another religion! Granted there are
people who approach science as a religion- I've certainly known
evolutionary biologists who approach their science with the same fervor
as a religious fundamentalist, and who are as intolerant of other
beliefs as anyone in ID.
But the bottom line is that the entire structure of their discipline,
the way that science addresses problem solving means that it is entirely
different from religions. Science addresses how- religion addresses
why. People can and do the findings of science to buttress religious
ideas, but that is going from is to ought, which is one of the most
important no nos of science. Scientists (although again they are human
and fallible) should not make the mistake of reading morality into their
results, or saying that because something is a particular way it ought
to be that way. People can turn to a variety of means of speculating
about the meaning of scientific discoveries, they can explore the sense
of wonder that the universe and its laws arouses in their heart and
soul. But when they do so they are moving into an entirely different
realm of human endeavor. They are going from science to religion.
Best, Nina S-R
PS I haven't read all of the posts, and am wondering if anyone has
addressed the question of what processes might lead to development of
the intelligent aliens who some might believe were responsibile for life
on earth. To me that simply removes the process of evolution to another
planet!!!!!
>>> [log in to unmask] 07/01/05 02:25PM >>>
What Tim says below really resonates with me.
What if the notion of God, defined simplistically as a set of
processes,
forces, natural laws and observable phenomena that influence(d) our
past, present and future, is what science is devoted to teasing out?
Then science becomes another religion, and the ID/evolution battle
becomes simply another clash in humanity's long history of religious
wars (which were not so much about religion but about land, but that
is
beside the point).
Julia Muney Moore
Public Art Administrator
Blackburn Architects, Indianapolis, IN
(317) 875-5500 x230
-----Original Message-----
From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Tim Gaddie
From a metaphysical standpoint, science is like any other religion in
that it is how some humans understand their reality. I'd argue it's
the
best process humans have devised to date for objectively understanding
our reality, but I'd argue it is still flawed like many of humans'
different metaphysical theories. One of those flaws is a propensity
for
dogmatic adherence to preconceived notions and a general
disinclination
to consider other ideas. Many of our now celebrated scientists learned
this the hard way in their own times when they became proponents for
ideas radical to their contemporary science.
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