The point I was trying to make was one of tolerance.
Too often on this and other museum industry listservs people have their
posts/queries met with unnecessary rudeness. I value this listserv, even
when my mailbox is full of posts I have absolutely no interest in. In
the end, I'd rather have to delete those messages than exclude those
posting them. Or exclude myself. Who knows when I might have a question
that could have best be answered by someone that had been e-bullied off
of the listserv for asking what another feels is a non-museum question?
And as Indigo once pointed out, the person you insult today may have
your resume on their desk tomorrow.
Rachel Talent Ivers
Registrar/Exhibitions Coordinator
Bass Museum of Art
2121 Park Avenue
Miami Beach, FL 33139
tel. 305.673.7530
fax 305.673.7062
-----Original Message-----
From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Mike Rippy
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:04 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: creationism and museums
Ive got a better idea. Sign-off the listserv all together. I get a
enough JUNK mail as it is. At least one person tried to tie this into
something museum related.
Michael Rippy
Assistant Photographer
Indianapolis Museum of Art
4000 Michigan Road
Indianapolis, IN, USA 46208-3326
(317)920-2662 ext.191
www.ima-art.org
[log in to unmask]
www.museumphotographers.org
[log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask] 08/03/05 3:34 PM >>>
Okay, I've stayed out of this, BUT....
I am of the opinion that if you don't feel something is applicable to
your particular "museum" situation JUST CLICK DELETE, as many of us do
most of the time when we see a subject line that we know holds no
interest for us. After reading the first post this morning on the topic,
I am aware throughout the rest of the day that all the other posts
coming into my mailbox with the same subject line are related. I hold no
ill will towards those who, oh, I don't know...work in science museums,
that may be interested in a topic that I am not. Just as I don't become
upset when someone asks questions about fire trucks or farm equipment.
Rachel Talent Ivers
Registrar/Exhibitions Coordinator
Bass Museum of Art
2121 Park Avenue
Miami Beach, FL 33139
tel. 305.673.7530
fax 305.673.7062
-----Original Message-----
From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of unlisted
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:17 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: creationism
What does any of this have to do with museums?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sasha Carrera" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] creationism
> This may seem an odd question, but are there any other faiths that
> take
> the
> Genesis version of how the world was created literally? You hear about
it
> being a purely Christian fundamentalist thing, I'm wondering if there
are
> Jewish or even Muslim groups that believe in Creationism too. Just
> wondering, Sasha
>
>
> On 8/3/05 12:19 PM, "Mark Janzen" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Rebecca,
>>
>> Yes, the "they" in this case are the pushers of Christian philosophy
>> as science, largely embodied by the Discovery Institute. Sorry if
>> that was not clear. I do indeed consider the movement rather
>> sinister, but that is probably the result of my personal feelings on
>> science and my love of my rights as an American.
>>
>> 1. Actually the proof is in the testing that has been done over the
>> past 125 years. That is what people do not understand about the
>> topic, and the central reason ID is not a competitor with evolution.
>> No one is asking anyone to take science on "faith". Science presents
>> the evidence, and allows it to speak for itself. If you do not think
>> the evidence is sufficient, and you prefer to assume intelligent
>> design, then so be it. Just do not call it science.
>>
>> 2. ID/creationism can not be disproved...it is faith. As a matter of
>> fact, no one is trying to disprove it. It is the other way around.
Evolution is
>> definitely still "standing", as nothing has yet presented a
substantive
>> alternative.
>>
>> 3. Then you need to start laughing. That is exactly what ID says, but
>> not is so few words. They believe their point of view is true because
>> their book says so. End of discussion(from their end anyway).
>>
>> You are absolutely correct. Both science and religion are integral
>> parts
>> of
>> human society and philosophy. We need both. However, what we also
need
>> are
>> people who understand both, and where the dividing lines lie between
>> them.
>> I do indeed hold both scientific and religious leaders in high
esteem,
>> but
>> leading and making positive contribution is far different from being
the
>> one who shouts the loudest in a conversation.
>>
>> Making a place for our children to be exposed to both is what we were
>> just talking about, and nothing is wrong with it at all. The point is
>> that
it
>> needs to be done in the right place, and the science/biology
classroom is
>> not the place for both. The unscarred adults who have been exposed to
>> both
>> theories were exposed in the proper places, i.e. biology class and
>> church.
>> The children who may be subjected to the travesty suggested by ID
>> proponents will definitely scar our children, and produce an
educational
>> blight that will be very difficult to eradicate once the mistake is
made.
>>
>> Indeed. We should certainly not allow the current confusion over the
>> nature of the topic to enter into our interpretations and color the
information
>> we
>> present to the public, whether they think it should be there or not.
>>
>> Mark Janzen
>> Registrar/Collections Manager
>> Edwin A. Ulrich Museum of Art
>> Martin H. Bush Outdoor Sculpture Collection
>> Wichita State University
>> (316)978-5850
>>
>>
>>
>> Rebecca
>> Fitzgerald
>> <rafitzgerald@COM
>> To
>> CAST.NET> [log in to unmask]
>> Sent by: Museum
>> cc
>> discussion list
>> <[log in to unmask]
>> Subject
>> SE.LSOFT.COM> Re: A washingtonpost.com
article
>> from: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> 08/03/2005 01:54
>> PM
>>
>>
>> Please respond to
>> Museum discussion
>> list
>> <[log in to unmask]
>> SE.LSOFT.COM>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I like to remind people that this controversy is not about evolution
>>> or even science. It is about telling other people what they should
>>> believe, and what is right and wrong.
>>
>> And this of course is the crux of most of the problems of the world.
>> In every debate there are those on each side who feel that they're
>> having the opposite view forced on them.
>>
>> By the way, who are "they?" In this case is "they" an organized group
>> pushing ID, or the millions of people who believe that that God
>> created the universe and every thing in it, whether in a week, or by
>> initiating that moment of creation - what some folks call the "big
>> bang." Or is "they" some
>> other sinister group?
>>
>> Science and religion necessarily intersect in this discussion, since
>> both consider our origin as part of their "turf." So, after many
>> years of studying this debate, and reading all there is on the
>> subject, I'm forced to
>> ask:
>> 1. Where's the proof? If science cannot produce the proof, then
>> they're asking me to take it on faith. Hmmm...that's exactly what
>> religion asks too. 2. If the authority is an evolution theory that's
>> still standing, then I'd
>> have to say that no one has disproved creationism/ID yet either.
>> 3. If either side says, "Because I'm the "illustrious grand poobah"
and I
>> said so, well then, I'd have to laugh at their arrogance.
>>
>> We hold both our scientists and our religious leaders in high esteem.
>> Our world is much richer for both but they both have had their dark
>> days. Frankly, we NEED both religion and science in our world today.
>>
>> What is wrong with teaching both theories? Why not make a place in
>> our schools for students to be exposed to both? Virtually every adult
>> over the age of 45 WAS exposed to both theories - and it doesn't seem
>> that those generations were terribly scarred by the experience.
>>
>> Bringing this back to practical museum work - it's so easy to
>> influence folks through museum exhibits and programming. I'm always
>> humbled by the vast educational influence that we wield. It is so
>> important that we "get it right" and avoid bending our exhibits and
>> interpretation to the current politically correct viewpoint.
>>
>> Becky Fitzgerald
>> Susquehanna Museum
>>
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