Dear John, et al:
This is off point a bit, but...
I believe that the lack of parallelism in the ICs clouds our thinking somewhat. I see the 28 ICs falling into four categories, something like this: Ten International Committees deal with generic concerns of interest to all museums, including security, education, conservation, management, etc. Seven deal with broad fields of art or science of interest to some, but not all, museums. They include modern art, natural history, archeology, ethnography, etc. Five deal with specialized collections of interest to far fewer museums such as glass, costumes, Egyptology and musical instruments. Finally, there are six that share common concerns within certain types of museums such as library museums, regional museums, etc.
With ill-advised disregard for sacred cows, I am personally uncomfortable with the latter two categories. To me the area of special collections is far too narrow and could be handled through alternative channels other than ICs. It is also infinitely expandable. Can we look forward to future committees for ornithology, philately, gemstones, arrowheads, and costume jewelry? And will we see the day when children's museums, company museums, clock museums, nature centers and arboreta join the list of library museums and regional museums?
If someone joins the local civic organization only to use the pool on weekends, we should not be surprised if he/she shows no interest or involvement whatever in the goals or activities of the club itself.
Proliferating the ICs into smaller and smaller splinters dilutes the larger promis and significance of ICOM while at the same time creating the illusion of serving its members in a more tailored, individual manner. I think it may be time to address this matter with the hope of getting back onto dry land.
Milton Bloch
>>> John McAvity <[log in to unmask]> 04/11/02 08:26PM >>>
Dear Milton et al:
Your questions are not hypothetical at all. And I suspect you know this
only too well!!!! Your questions pose very serious issues.
However, your questions underscore that the
world is no longer a simple and naive place, but that there are legal
implications to all of our actions. We might not like to imagine these,
but we must be aware of them and govern ourselves accordingly.
I cannot see how ICOM is immune from the actions of groups that act in its
name or under its umbrella but I am no expert in France's civil code.
However, the ICs are entities of ICOM, as are most NCs. As dark as these
threats may seem, ICOM needs to take a serious look at the potential
downside to any legal actions that could be taken against it or its
committees, no matter how much good faith is involved.
Are board members of ICOM, let alone its committees covered by any
Directors and Officers Liability Insurance? How does this work at an
international level? I do not know as there will be many jurisdictions
involved but the questions are still valid for consideration.
In my country, Canada, we cover our association's directors by purchasing
Directors & Officers liability insurance, as well as coverage for accidents
involving volunteers and delegates at conferences and meetings.. For
example, we always worry about a bus accident!!!! And we never want to
receive a law suit.
These are serious considerations that ICOM must take into account. Criminal
actions in the case of thefts are another matter but complicated by
international jurisdisctions.
ICOM should get proper legal advice on these sort of matters, and as the
saying goes "govern itself accordingly."
John McAvity
Exective Director
Canadian Museums Association
www.museums.ca
and Board member of INTERCOM.
.
> >
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Milton Bloch" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 10:41 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: CONSULTATION ON YOUR REVIEW OF INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEES
>
>
> John, Per, colleagues,
>
> I have been following the e-mail exchanges with the hope my own
> questions would be asked and answered by someone else. I would like to
> know what would happen in the case of two hypothetical situations:
>
> 1. An IC produces a publication which costs far more money than it has.
> Perhaps a promised grant falls through and they are left $10,000 short.
> The printer sues. Who is actually being sued and who would be liable?
>
> 2. It is discovered (perhaps by an IC executive committee member) that
> $5,000 is missing from that IC's bank account. The treasurer is
> suspect. Who has the legal authority to press for the return of the
> missing money and through what legal channel?
>
> It is not my intention to dream up highly improbable schemes for the
> sake of creating intriguing, but essentially meaningless, theoretical
> excercises. I don't think, however, that these hypothetical are so
> unimaginable. Any thoughts?
>
> Milton Bloch
> ICEE
>
> >>> John McAvity <[log in to unmask]> 04/10/02 08:36AM >>>
> Thank you Per Rekdal for these excellent questions and observations, and
> for
> trying to abstain from the debate! Here are my own questions and
> observations.
>
> ICs are the backbone of ICOM, and are extremely important. This is
> where
> the real work and value of networking takes place, but they exist on a
> shoestring. It is amazing what they pull off, and is a credit to each
> of
> them. But this work is done by a small handful (often just a single
> person) of dedicated individuals.
>
> To state the obvious, the issue is one of resources. Currently ICs
> depend
> not on ICOM but on the good will of their members in order to function.
> As one who has hosted several IC meetings and conferences (often these
> are
> more of conferences than simply meetings!), I can testify that the
> burden of
> financial support is faced by members. IC volunteers or their
> institutions
> pay for mailings, they cover all the costs for organization of meetings,
> stuff envelopes, pay for translation costs, travel, write and distribute
> minutes, sometimes even pay for ICOM representatives to attend their
> meetings!
>
> Is this a practice that can continue? Probably it can subject to ICs
> finding supportive institutions to bankroll their activities. But is
> this
> the best way for ICOM to see its ICs develop? Are ICs able to meet the
> expectations of their new members? I do not think so.
>
> What if an IC goes into serious debt? Will ICOM assume this debt? I
> believe it must as ICs operate under the name of ICOM . This is not an
> idle
> question as ICs could easily become liable for major losses, esp in the
> case
> of a law suit due to personal injury at one of their meetings. But if
> ICs
> were separate legal entities, the answer would be no, ICOM would not
> face
> this liability; the separate entity would be faced with these problems.
>
> With cutbacks everywhere, it is increasingly difficult for museums to
> justify this kind of support for IC activities. I believe ICs should
> stay
> within the ICOM framework but that ICOM must find new and creative ways
> to
> provide them with essential support and services.
>
> I have some ideas for this kind of support but I will refrain from
> adding
> them to this discussion at this time.
>
> John McAvity
> INTERCOM
> www.museums.ca
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Per Bj|rn Rekdal" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 6:33 AM
> > Subject: Re: CONSULTATION ON YOUR REVIEW OF INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEES
> >
> >
> > As a member of the International Comm. Task Force, I will try to
> abstain
> > from going into a debate on the List, but rather try to ask further
> > questions.
> >
> > As we know, any desired solution to a problem always have "side
> > effects".
> > A good example: We may think that if all members of ICOM became
> members
> > in
> > an international committee, then all the committees would get more
> money
> > because the annual subvention is based on the number of members.
> > Side effect 1: Since the sum available for distribution is constant,
> no
> > committee would necessarily get more money, but less money for each
> > member.
> > Side effect 2: The committees will have to spend more money because
> they
> > have to communicate with more members.
> > Result: If all members of ICOM became members in an IC, each IC would
> > get
> > poorer.
> > Wisdom: All organizations are dependent on a proportion of members
> that
> > are
> > satisfied with the most basic advantage of membership (like the ICOM
> > card),
> > so that the organization can use more money on the active members than
> > the
> > passive members.
> >
> > I think we should try to see the proposals in the same light: what are
> > the
> > benefits and what are the negative "side effects"? For example:
> >
> > If all ICs became AOs the benefit would be:
> > - becoming a legal entity
> > - taking your own membership fees and keeping them
> > - recruiting members from outside ICOM
> > - freedom from ICOM's different rules and regulations
> >
> > Side effects:
> > - time consuming and costly to keep your own record of members
> > - loosing many members because they do not want to pay both ICOM fee
> and
> > IC-fee (this can of course be seen as an advantage, because it will be
> > the
> > passive ones that disappear)
> > - making it less relevant to be an ICOM member.
> > - making it less relevant to have National committees
> > - changing the role of the Secretariat of ICOM rather dramatically
> > - weakening the economy of ICOM
> >
> > Now, I put these advantages and disadvantages in a bit provocative
> > manner,
> > and it definitely seems that I am against turning the ICs into AOs.
> But
> > the
> > truth is that I am not sure, and I would really like to hear good and
> > well
> > balanced arguments in both directions. So what would you say, Jørgen,
> > Giovanni, Patrick, Leonard, Lynn and others, would be a good list of
> > advantages and disadvantages?
> >
> > What do you chairpersons of the different ICs say? Would you like to
> > have a
> > merge of ICs and AOs?
> >
> > Another thing: There has been a lot of noise lately around the (not
> so)
> > legal status of the ICs. The annual subventions to the ICs - even to
> the
> > largest ones - are so small that they cannot possibly create any
> > enormous
> > danger of putting the leaders of ICOM into an embarrassing position if
> > one
> > or three of these committees do something wrong with this money. And
> the
> > conferences of the ICs are as far as I know almost always arranged
> > together
> > with an institution of solid legal status in the country where the
> > conference is held, so that conference fees, etc, can be handled
> through
> > this institution.
> > My question is: is the question of the non-legality of the ICs so
> > acutely
> > critical that this question should be the primary one to guide our
> > thinking
> > on the future of ICOM?
> >
> > Per B. Rekdal
> > Chairperson ICME
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Per B. Rekdal
> > Seksjonsleder/Head of Department
> > Utstillings- og publikumsseksjonen /
> > Exhibitions, Education and Public Services
> > Universitetets kulturhistoriske museer /
> > The University Museums of Cultural Heritage
> > P.O.Box 6762 St. Olavs pl.
> > N-0130 Oslo, Norway
> > Tel. (-47) 22 85 99 64
> > Fax (-47) 22 85 99 60
> > E-mail: [log in to unmask]
> > www.ukm.uio.no
> >
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