Nina I can't wait to come to your museum of condoned law breaking.
Can I just take stuff I'm not supposed to from your museum?


Randy S. Little




On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Nina Simon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Hi Nick,
>
> My only concern with this is that it implicates and endangers the collector.
> I'm not sure we're willing to do that. We want to all take the risk (or not)
> together.
>
> Nina
>
>
>
> On May 31, 2012, at 2:02 PM, Nick Partridge wrote:
>
> Dave,
> In light of your clarification: why not just recreate the exhibit with
> domestic soil? Get a bunch of vials and a variety of soil samples. Label
> them from different countries. Then state on the exhibit label that its a
> reproduction of a collection that this person obtained illegally, and go
> into the motives and issues surrounding her actions. You're right: it's
> a fascinating component of your exhibit. By using a recreation of it, you
> can not only use this great example of a personal collection but also go
> into the illegalities of it. It will make it much more interesting. As for
> displaying the original: it's far too dangerous to involve yourself and your
> institution.
> Thanks,
> Nick
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Selma Thomas <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you for your comments! I’ve been watching this discussion and
>> wondering – what about the ethics involved?  It’s not just a legal issue but
>> also an ethical one.  If a country makes it illegal to export, or import,
>> organic material,  how do museums set themselves above this law?   Aren’t we
>> all mindful of the cultural and natural plundering that has taken place for
>> centuries?  Don’t we owe those home countries some respect, especially if we
>> are cultural visitors?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf Of BECKER, DAVID
>> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:46 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] exhibiting illegally-obtained dirt?
>>
>>
>>
>> What is the goal of the exhibit? If the goal is to show differences in
>> dirt from around the world, then dirt can be obtained through legal and
>> ethical means.
>>
>>
>>
>> If the exhibit is about collection and the collecting process, what is the
>> message that the museum wants to send about the collection process and how
>> does this particular collection fit in? It could be the basis for an
>> interesting discussion about the ethics of collection. Those questions could
>> be raised through other representations of the collection or through other
>> collections? Does the full collection need to be physically present in the
>> museum?
>>
>>
>>
>> I personally don’t agree with calling it art as that was not the intent of
>> the collection or the collector, i.e. it was not done by an artist with an
>> intent to make art for a stated artistic purpose or message. To call it art
>> for convenience sake is not in keeping with the artistic discipline that
>> calling it art would represent.
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess I see it as a bigger issue than has been presented in the initial
>> e-mail.  If this naturalist had illegally transported a cultural artifact
>> without permission would that be o.k. to display? If this naturalist had
>> transported the hide or fur of an animal that had been killed illegally,
>> would that be ok to display?  When I go to a nature center, there are signs
>> that tell me to take only pictures, and not take anything else with me:  Is
>> it ok for me to ignore those signs for the sake of my personal collection?
>> Would this same naturalist condone this same behavior if was going to be
>> conducted on a larger scale by 100 people, or by 1000 people, or by
>> everyone?  I think there are issues and considerations here that go beyond
>> the issue of whether it is legal or not.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave Becker
>>
>> Senior Manager of Learning Experiences
>>
>> Chicago Zoological Society
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf Of Pickering, Bob
>> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:51 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: exhibiting illegally-obtained dirt?
>>
>>
>>
>> Whether the dirt is dangerous or not, isn’t there an issue of displaying
>> material that is known to be illegal? Does calling it “art” absolve the
>> museum of responsibility?
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert B. Pickering, PhD
>>
>> Director of Curatorial Affairs & Public Programs, Gilcrease Museum;
>>
>> Director, Museum Science and Management, University of Tulsa
>>
>> 1400 N. Gilcrease Museum Rd
>>
>> Tulsa, OK  74127
>>
>> (918) 596-2706 Office
>>
>> (918) 596-2770 Fax
>>
>> (918) 805-4780 Cell
>>
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf Of Nina Simon
>> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:07 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: [MUSEUM-L] exhibiting illegally-obtained dirt?
>>
>>
>>
>> This one is for the museum lawyers and collection management gurus out
>> there.
>>
>>
>>
>> For an upcoming temporary exhibition on collections, we would like to show
>> a collection of vials of dirt that a local naturalist collected on her
>> travels around the world. The challenge is that much of this dirt was
>> transferred into the US illegally (i.e. from countries where they are strict
>> about making sure that organic material doesn't enter or leave the country)
>> or was obtained with some trespassing (i.e. from celebrities' yards). She is
>> nervous about exhibiting the dirt in public for this reason.
>>
>>
>>
>> My sense is that if we can call this art, it might not be a problem.
>> Frankly, I don't think it's a big problem period - there's no real risk or
>> danger to the dirt - but I want to learn more about how to address this
>> issue. Do you know anyone who might have some expertise to bear in this
>> arena?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>>
>> Nina
>>
>>
>>
>> Nina Simon
>>
>> Executive Director
>>
>> Santa Cruz Museum of Art & History
>>
>> 831.429.1964 x7018
>>
>>
>>
>> Come visit us at 705 Front Street in Santa Cruz
>>
>> Get involved at www.santacruzmah.org or on Facebook
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> To unsubscribe from the MUSEUM-L list, click the following link:
>> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MUSEUM-L&A=1
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> To unsubscribe from the MUSEUM-L list, click the following link:
>> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MUSEUM-L&A=1
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> To unsubscribe from the MUSEUM-L list, click the following link:
>> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MUSEUM-L&A=1
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> To unsubscribe from the MUSEUM-L list, click the following link:
>> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MUSEUM-L&A=1
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> To unsubscribe from the MUSEUM-L list, click the following link:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MUSEUM-L&A=1
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> To unsubscribe from the MUSEUM-L list, click the following link:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=MUSEUM-L&A=1

=========================================================
Important Subscriber Information:

The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes).

If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).