Hi Karen;
Believe me, I know your frustrations; I spent years living with them myself before getting firmly established in my career.
I have to agree with Mr. Bremer that often it's presentation that is the make-or-break point in getting a job. If you're getting second and third interviews, then your resume and covering letters are probably pretty good, because they're doing their job--getting you interviews. If your experience wasn't adequate, and your applications were sloppy, you wouldn't be getting to that point. At the interview, it's not necessarily about having the interviewers like you (although that's certainly better than them not liking you!); it's about selling yourself into the job. I heard it said once (or written in one of the many job-getting guides I poured through) that the person who gets the job isn't always the best person to do the job--but it was the person who was best at *getting* the job. Have you done any specific work to build you interviewing skills?
Also, I was troubled by your "I was willing to take ANY museum position." This smacks of desperation (I know; you were probably desperate! I know I was), and lack of focus--both of which are unappealing to potential employers. Focus on a particular job, and go for that one. Doesn't mean you have to restrict yourself to just, say, collections management positions, but when applying for an exhibit design job, tailor your application for that. When at the interview, don't offer that "I'd be willing to take your collections management job if I don't get the exhibits position"--if you're interviewing for one job, focus on that. If an institution has more than one opening, and they like you for another they have available but not the one you interviewed for, they'll let you know.
Finally, you didn't mention if you were willing to re-locate to take a position. If you're restricting yourself to just New York, then yes, be prepared for a long wait before landing a position, and do everything you can to keep your skill and experience current while you wait. The museum field is very competitive all around the world; you're taking further strikes if you're limiting yourself to a small geographical area, and a correspondingly small marketplace. The further afield you're prepared to travel to take a job, the better you chances of getting one.
Sure, it's a tough field to break into, but even in the toughest fields in the worst economies, there are still people quitting, retiring, and changing careers in every profession--there will always be some (if slight) vacancies to be filled. If you keep at it, one day one of them will be yours.
Good luck!
------------------------------------------------------------
Tim McShane, Assistant--Cultural History
Esplanade Museum
401 First Street SE
Medicine Hat, AB T1A 8W2
Tel: (403) 502-8587
[log in to unmask]
>>> Karen Eckhaus <[log in to unmask]> 2/16/2007 5:45 PM >>>
There is no magic answer. I've done everything recommended: I have a
background in Anthro/Cultural Studies, I've done several long term museum
internships where the administrators LOVED me, I've held fulltime positions
as curator, collections manager and exhibitions coordinator, I'm pursuing my
MA in Museum Studies, I self fund attendance professional conferences so
that I may network, and I have very advanced technical skills. I was willing
to take ANY museum position. Interviewers liked me. I was being called in
for second and third rounds, but never got offers. I finally had to settle
for a part-time position that pays less hourly than the temporary non
skilled positions at the same institution.
It seems to me that your background and experience matters equally to being
at the right place/time. Unfortunately, competition is still for museum
positions (especially here in NYC).
Does anyone have any suggestions on what else I could do to make myself more
appealing?
Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
Of Eric Siegel
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:26 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] There is no silver bullet; there are (almost) no
jobs
I have not followed the entire thread. But if you want to advance in the
museum profession, spend some time doing fundraising. Jobs are plentiful
and the skill will always be valued, no matter what professional path you
eventually follow. It may not be what you dreamed of, but you will have a
foot in the museum, and earn a living as well.
Eric Siegel
On 2/7/07, Erik Heikkenen < [log in to unmask]> wrote:
Bottom line. Target museums and positions in which you are qualified. If
you do not hold the qualifications (e.g. content knowledge and/or museum
knowledge). Get it.
Erik J. Heikkenen
>From: Pamela Silvestri <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Museum discussion list < [log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [MUSEUM-L] There is no silver bullet; there are (almost) no
>jobs
>Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 09:22:08 EST
>
>
>
>I disagree with 'some' of what you say...my academic background/training
>is
>archaeology, anthropology,sociology and social service...not forestry nor
>did
>I have much previous knowledge about the Civilian Conservation Corps.
>People
>don't study forestry to go work in a museum. And not all subjects/themes
>of
>a museum nor museuology for that matter -can even be studied within an
>academic program.
>
>So...absolutely, I agree that acquiring the museum experience and the
>multiple skill set along the way is key. 1 1/2 years of field/lab work
>while
>pursuing my degree, I was ready. But mostly, the museum part came about in
>order to
>fill a staffing need for a collections care manager (3 1/2 years while I
>was
>an undergrad) in a university museum.
>
>Utilizing work study, student labor funding and even some volunteer time in
>there -I took the initiative to do this work. This required very hands-on
>work
> and intense research. I worked along side of and was taught by experts. I
>also catered my academic work to my paid work (and vice-versa) where ever
>possible.
>
>It was my unrelated per diem job, working in a hospital that led me to my
>work at the CCC Museum -passing by the museum for over 5 years. I came in
>there
>with a skill set -strong research skills, public program experience, a
>well-rounded academic background, etc. The forest supervisor taught me
>about
>forestry, forestry related programs -there was interpretive guide training
>too. I
>have access to many, many resources for information on forestry and the
>CCC,
>I utilize them fully. If I have a question about silviculture...there is
>much
>literature or I could ask a forester. We have at least a dozen books
>pertaining to interpretive guide training.
>
>Learning about the CCC...caring/for and interpreting the collections
>requires me to rely on a wide multitude of resources. Intense document
>research,
>oral histories and even being on the other end of a two-man saw.
>
>My 'subject' work/research just prior to doing this...was pertaining to a
>Middle to Late Woodland Native American archaeological site excavation. I
>was
>researching mortuary behavior in the Northeast for the study of a cultural
>soil
> feature found at this site. And doing this while excavating an unrelated
>site, waitressing too(sometimes working on a dig in the morning, and
>cleaning
>myself in the restroom in time for the lunch shift).
>
>There are hundreds of more like me who have gone about learning and gaining
>experience in a similar fashion. Our specific experiences may vary, cross
>paths, meet etc., but the bottom line is that we have what it takes to be
>the
>conduit for the 'expert', acquire a level of expertise...even become the
>expert
>ourselves and whatever it takes to apply what is required of the museum.
>Subject experts are not always available and able to apply their work in a
>museum setting. Museology requires us to be able to branch off into many
>directions.
>
>When State Forestry was in its infancy at the beginning of the last
>century,
>Austin Foster Hawes, fresh out of the Yale School of Forestry and Tufts U,
>had reservations about accepting the position as Connecticut's 2nd State
>Forester because he would be required to give public talks. (The 1st State
>Forester, after serving a very short time, had resigned to become
>Massachusetts 1st
>State Forester) Hawes had never given public talks before, was very nervous
>about having to do so and didn't want to have to. This was the only thing
>holding him back from accepting the position. After consulting with
>Gifford
>Pinchot, he accepted the position.
>
>And the rest is a very fascinating history of forestry, including the CCC,
>and this and more has everything to do with what I'm doing today. Having
>studied museuology, I know why museums exist to begin with, the purpose of
>museums,
> etc., no matter what the subject or specific mission of the museum is.
>The
>general public -many subject experts...even someone working in a museum who
>never studied museuology...may not know this or need to.
>
>And this can be an in-depth discussion, so enough said here right now. For
>my work, I am able to provide a service and I know what I'm doing, why I'm
>doing it and who and what I'm doing it for.
>
>On that note...after Austin Hawes retired from his position as State
>Forester, he pursued his interest in archaeology. All those years he worked
>in the
>forests, coming across the cultural remains of the past, he finally had the
>time and took the effort to learn and understand more about what he had
>seen. At
> this point is his life and having completed his career, this was mainly
>for
>self-fulfillment. As it was, he did above and beyond what was required of
>him
>as a forester - in regards to interpreting and preserving these sites. I
>especially enjoyed reading his research pertaining to the economic reasons
>for
>the abandonment of homesteads/farms during the mid-late 1800s, in one
>particular region that became a state forest.
>
>I'd be most certain that his subsequent work in archaeology, had he written
>about it, been pursuing it as a career etc., would have been a contribution
>to
> the field as was his work in forestry.
>
>In posts...we can only get so far in-depth and are simplifying as a result
>-
>providing basic information to new grads, others considering studies, those
>wishing to further their work in a museum. Letting them know some of what
>is
>required/expected of them in order to do this.
>
>We can't give all the info in one post, from one person...nor in many posts
>from many people. What I think we should be doing, is also discussing what
>is
>expected/required of a mid-level professional in the field. This would be
>helpful for the new grads and those of us that haven't been able to fully
>reach
>or benefit from this stage in our careers.
>
>Pam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>In a message dated 2/6/2007 5:52:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>[log in to unmask] writes:
>
>You're so right. People with advanced degrees, every single one, are
>tedious fuddy-duddys, incapable of communicating to the masses. They're
>so very boring. I don't know why anyone would bother getting one, or
>why anyone would want to hire an egghead.
>
>David, seriously, do you need to trot out that old stereotype? Did you
>really think I was suggesting that an advanced degree should trump every
>other consideration, including the ability to communicate? Hardly.
>
>Look, ultimately, I think we're on the same page: the ideal curator or
>educator or collections specialist has training in the academic
>discipline related to the museum where s/he works AND has training or
>experience in museum work. It gets tiresome when people dismiss
>academic training as irrelevant to work in a museum. Without
>scholarship and research, you just have a pile of nice things collecting
>dust. And I think you'll find that the people who do get satisfying
>work, do have multiple skill sets. That, perhaps, is an answer to the
>original question of this thread: how does one get a job in a museum?
>Pick a field of study (science, anthropology, art, elementary education,
>history, etc.) AND ALSO acquire museum training and knowledge. One of
>these is simply not enough.
>
>
>
>David Harvey wrote:
> > Jill,
> >
> > I have to ever so politely disagree.
> >
> > Having been on both sides of this issue in my long career I have to
> > say that just because you are an expert in any field of knowledge does
> > not make you a natural or a good communicator or interpreter. There is
> > a special skill set and innate talent for communicating with the
> > public - whether it be as an interpreter, guide, or lecturer that many
> > people do not possess. Sure, some of those skills can be taught but
> > the natural ability and ease with people cannot.
> >
> > How many professional conferences have you been too where you have
> > really, really been enthralled by an "expert" giving a paper or a
> > lecture? I can count them on one hand - but those were among the most
> > inspiring and motivating moments I have had the pleasure to
> > experience.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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