Jason,

Your "language" does merit comment, because by posting this message to
Museum-L, you have just promoted yourself as unprofessional, angry, and
unable to communicate your comments tactfully and articulately to several
thousand prospective employers, colleagues, references, and advisors in
museums all over the world. That will very likely not help you very much.

Secondly, an internship, paid or unpaid, is an excellent way to get
experience. Yes, you will have to work an extra job, eat Ramen every day,
and run up your credit cards. Very few people get into the field without
this form of apprenticeship. I understand and share your frustration about
nobody being willing to hire that first, green candidate - but that is why
we have internships. Internships provide much better experience than
entry-level positions do, because they are designed to allow someone with
little or no background to take on a project of considerable responsibility
and gain real-world, practical skills without having to compete for a "real"
job against people who already have those skills.

When I graduated from college, I interned at my "dream" museum for a year
and a half. The museum was top-notch, the work was an incredible learning
experience, and I made invaluable contacts that I have relied on many times
since then. I was paid a mere $1000 per month (and this was in the
mid-1990's!) for 40+ hours a week of work. That didn't leave much time for a
second job, so I had to wait tables at night. The experience got me into
grad school, and probably did a lot to get me my next internship, my
graduate assistantship, and my first "real" job. Throughout grad school, I
worked 6 days a week, took out more student loans, etc. However, I managed
to cobble together over 3 years of substantive (read: not a receptionist)
museum experience to add to my academic training, which helped to qualify me
for the types of jobs I most wanted. I got an interview out of each
application I submitted (3) and one of them actually led to a REAL job (yes,
it does happen!). Despite my bills, I love what I do, and I would do it all
again in a heartbeat.

Nobody works in museums for the money. Either you want to be there, and you
do it for the love of the work and the professional community, or you don't
and you should look into a more lucrative field. It's a hard road to
full-time, meaningful employment. If there's one thing you should have
gleaned from this listserve in the last few weeks, it's that nobody has
gotten where they are without this same kind of struggle. I bet most would
say it was worth the sacrifices.

So, get that internship, learn to carry 5 dinners on a tray, and don't give
up. Besides, Ramen comes in a lot more flavors nowadays than it used to. And
please, watch your language. You're on a professional network, not at a
superbowl party. Good luck.

Celia

Celia Curtis
Events and Volunteer Coordinator
Astor House Museum and Clear Creek History Park
[log in to unmask]
www.astorhousemuseum.org
www.clearcreekhistorypark.org


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason W Onerheim" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 10:31 AM
Subject: Thoughts on Hiring and the Catch-22


> Good advice, just one question, HOW is one to get experience?  Internship?
> Only if mommmy and daddy have enough money for you to live a year w/o
> income.  Work a second job?  Who will pay enough to live when your
> internship is 30+ hrs. a week.  Work a lesser job and work on up?  First,
> these jobs are just as hard to get as the PhD required jobs, and I've
tried
> that, I have a crappy job right now with little or no chance to "move up"
> (of course I didn't know that when I started...)    Ah I see, everybody
> wants to hire an experienced employee but are not willing to give that
> experience in the form of a lesser job or try a qualified but less
> experienced applicant.  I can see the need to hire the best appliant for
> the job, fine but what the hell are the rest of us suppost to do?
> Everybody here seems to talk and comment from their ivory tower, and
really
> doesn't know what it's like working a job you hate, eating ramen 7 days a
> week just on the off chance an opportunity will come your way, and when it
> does, there are 250+ applicants.  Great, so my choices are, somehow tell
my
> student loans, creditcards, and landlord that I won't be able to pay
'cause
> I have an internship, or get a Ph.D be $100,000 in debt, and still be
> shoved around by "lack of experience".  Fuck the status quo, I am sick and
> goddam tired of putting up with this crap.  If you want a spineless
> employee that will do only that which is required, with experience hire
> that looser, if you want an employee that will stick up for himself, has
> the balls to get something done, and with ideas and new innovations for
the
> position, but doesn't quite meet the experience requirements, hire me.
>
> See, noone cares, what did you say after that last sentence?  He isn't
> going to get anywhere...  I can appleshine with the best of them, but I
> prefer to be honest and forthright.  I will not put up with crap from
> anybody, whether you're a museum director with 7 degrees or a junky of the
> street who came in for the free air conditioning.  And, I will be right, I
> won't bother getting out of bed if my position is questionable so don't
> even bother with that criticism.
>
> so, now what?  What am I suppost to do?  I can't afford an intership,
> style, drive and ambition will not make up for 6 measly months of
> experience, I'm working a job I hate even though it is in a museum, and
> every application I've made (100+ over 1 year) has been rejected for an
> applicant with more experience.
>
> One last thing, I apologize to any of you who may have been offended, I'm
> looking for advice and I just wanted to show my frustration, so save your
> ivy league dibble about my language, I need unfettered and honest advice,
> please.
>
> Jason
>

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