You know, a lot of this conversation about time off
would be obviated if more (US) folks understood the
mandates for the Family Medical Leave Act (which
happens to be a link in the Topics section of my
employment web site
http://victorian.fortunecity.com/stanmer/414 ).

According to HotJobs.com, questions about benefits
should be made of the headhunter and/or HR person with
whom you interview before meeting with the hiring
supervisor.

However, if you are interviewing for a position that
doesn't include a heahunter or a visit with the
museum's HR rep, then it is absolutely NOT
inappropriate (and remember that anything containing
appropriate is usually very subjective and subject to
the whim of the person rendering judgment) to ask
questions about benefits.

Benefits are not gifts.  They are a form of
compensation.  Some are required by law; others are
the inducement an employer provides to acquire/retain
qualified personnel.  Sometimes jobs are not
taken/endured for the benefit of the job, it's for the
benefits themselves.

I think the main thought people have overlooked in
this thread is that interviewing is a two-fold
courting process.  Both parties should be honest.
More lawsuits are founded upon misrepresentations made
in the interview process.

I also think it's long past time that some of the
hiring supervisors in all fields left their personal
and judgmental prejudices at home when it came time to
select an employee.  Married, straight, gay, single,
kids, skin color, height, weight, age, needing
benefits, inability to censure, etc., are all
ludicrous reasons to deny someone a job.

Is the person qualified for the position?  Yes/no.

Is the person the BEST qualified for this position
among the pool of available candidates?  Yes/no.

Is this person a good fit for this work group given
the other personalities with whom (s)he would have to
interact?  Yes/no.

Can we afford this person?  Yes/no.

Can we afford NOT to hire this person?  Yes/no.

Maybe it would behoove some of you on both sides of
the interviewing table to become familar with NELA:

http://www.nela.org/home_ns.htm

NELA is the National Employment Lawyers' Association.

Now, as long as I'm being admittedly judgmental, this
is ONE of the problems you often find when you promote
the best TECHNICAL person to supervisor.  More often
than not, the person is great in their technical
speciality, but often lacking in people skills, and
usually very lacking in their knowledge of employment
law.  Being a supervisor is often a very thankless job
that offers very little additional recompense.  But it
can also get you and your organization into a lot of
hot water, and you usually don't say I'll take the job
and get an instant knowledge of what a supervisor
needs to know.

Further, you may wish to read the synopsis I put
together as a result of an EEOC decision on supervisor
liability/harassment.  If some of the judgmental
opinions are evident of what is ongoing, there is a
great need for some of you to read and get a better
understanding of what you are exposing yourself to.

http://victorian.fortunecity.com/stanmer/414/law/liability1.html


--- Lori Allen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Audra,
> Have you ever had to make a decision concerning
> multiple jobs and multiple
> locations many miles apart?  If so, then you would
> appreciate when an
> employer is up front about benefits.  rarely are you
> at the same stage of
> the interview process with each potential employer
> so there is no such thing
> as being too up front about these issues. Such info
> also relieves the
> potential employee from having to ask questions
> which would the reveal
> information they may not wish to reveal.  Also, most
> benefit info is not
> available outside the organization other than just
> such general info as to
> be useless for the purposes of calculation.
>
> Further, as someone who has owned their own business
> and hired many times, I
> bothers me that you are admittedly bothered
> (swayed??) by "improper
> information".  IF someone mentions their family, I
> note it, but it doesn't
> influence my decision.  Frankly, I have found that
> family status can be a
> positive or negative either way and therefore
> becomes individual based and
> neutral.
>
> Lastly, your suggestion that a candidate may imply
> something without being
> specific to me comes across as asking them to lie.
> And an interviewer can
> sense that right away.  The last thing I want is to
> have to lie to get a job
> or have to work under someone who wants me to lie or
> will lie to me.
> Straightforward honesty is a far more respectable
> path.
>
> Lori Allen,
> Grad Student, UMSL
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Museum discussion list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
> Of Audra Oliver
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 9:31 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: More on hiring, in general
>
>
>
> I would much prefer that candidates keep things that
> I am not supposed to
> consider in the hiring process out of their
> interview.  For instance rather
> than being specific, you might indicate that for
> personal reasons or perhaps
> health reasons you foresee needing a chunk of time
> off. Explain that you
> understand this is important for your potential
> employer to know. If you are
> moving to be nearer family members, that's one
> thing.  If you are going to
> grill an employer on how much time they allow you to
> take off for family
> matters in an initial interview you will come across
> as someone less
> interested in what they can contribute to the
> organization and more
> interested in what they can get from it.
>
> Many employers are up front about benefits and when
> they are I often feel it
> is premature.  To me it gets the interview rather
> off track of the position
> itself and my qualifications for it. Too, I am
> focused enough about the
> latter two points that I do not retain much of what
> they have to say about
> the benefits.  Benefit information is available
> outside the interview in
> most organizations. If it is important to a
> candidate (someone in this
> thread said that they didn't have time to waste
> waiting until the
> negotiations phase to discover them)  it is probably
> something the candidate
> should consider screening positions for this before
> making application to
> them.
>
> If you want to know about the flexibility of hours,
> ask about the
> flexibility of hours. Don't elaborate as to why.
> Sometimes I need to deal
> with a service person, sometimes I need to take an
> animal to the vet.
> Perhaps I want an afternoon off for a dog show. You
> may need to take a child
> to the doctor. You may want to go to a school
> program.  I might need
> dialysis.
>
>
>
>
=========================================================
> Important
> Subscriber Information:
> The Museum-L FAQ file is located at
> http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may
> obtain detailed
> information about the listserv commands by sending a
> one line e-mail message
> to [log in to unmask] . The body of the
> message should read "help"
> (without the quotes).
>
> If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one
> line e-mail message to
> [log in to unmask] . The body of the
> message should read "Signoff
> Museum-L" (without the quotes).
>
>
>
=========================================================
> Important Subscriber Information:
>
> The Museum-L FAQ file is located at
> http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may
> obtain detailed information about the listserv
> commands by sending a one line e-mail message to
> [log in to unmask] . The body of the
> message should read "help" (without the quotes).
>
> If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one
> line e-mail message to [log in to unmask]
> . The body of the message should read "Signoff
> Museum-L" (without the quotes).
>


=====
Indigo Nights
[log in to unmask]

Looking for a job?  Try:
http://victorian.fortunecity.com/stanmer/414   OR
http://www.workers.gov/  (US Federal Government Resource)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

=========================================================
Important Subscriber Information:

The Museum-L FAQ file is located at http://www.finalchapter.com/museum-l-faq/ . You may obtain detailed information about the listserv commands by sending a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "help" (without the quotes).

If you decide to leave Museum-L, please send a one line e-mail message to [log in to unmask] . The body of the message should read "Signoff Museum-L" (without the quotes).