I agree, it sounds like some people just wanted to vent their own political
agendas.
-----Original Message-----
From: Les Reker
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: 11/27/2001 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: CLONING FOR STEM CELLS
My feeling exactly.
-----Original Message-----
From: Museum discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
Behalf Of Redcliffe State Historic Site
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 1:20 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CLONING FOR STEM CELLS
What do this have to do with the museum community or the purpose of
this
listserve?
Casey Connell
-----Original Message-----
From: Barb Rexroat [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 12:36 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CLONING FOR STEM CELLS
While you can split an atom, you can not completely separate
church and state as long as church goers vote and whether you think they
are
right, wrong or zealots, they vote for our government representatives
who
make these difficult decisions. The government doesn't always please
us,
that's for sure. It's very easy for you to criticize the president when
you
are not the one trying to please the entire country.
Furthermore, you will NEVER convince me that an embryo is
not
one of God's children. If scientists want me to believe that because of
the
process of evolution man has not always looked the way he does today,
why
can't I expect scientists to believe that an embryo can be a human even
if
it doesn't look like we do.
It's very easy for you to say that people who are against
cloning an embryo are zealots. You don't know me, how can you label me?
I
would argue that scientists can be zealots for their beliefs as well.
Just keep in mind that just because someone disagrees with
you
doesn't mean they are "wrong" any more than you are "right" or "wrong."
Religious people are not against science. Last time I checked we all
had a
right to our opinion and many of us disagree with embryo cloning. That
is
OK.
When it's all said and done, if I'm wrong, so what; but if
scientists who disregard God's will are wrong, they have one hell of a
price
to pay.
Barb
At 03:50 PM 11/26/01 -0800, you wrote:
>. The science community, those interested in the right to
choice,
>those wanting to see humane scientific progress, must restore to
the
>science community the right to make scientific definitions , and
not
>give it to religious fundamentalists. Religions defining scientific
>organisms or defining anything in the sciences, through law,
violates
>Separation of Church and State.
> It's based on a religious definition, adopted by the "dead
or
>alive" pro-death penalty President, that "human life (e.g., a baby)
>begins at conception.
> A six-cell embryo is hardly a "baby" or a "human being."
It's
>argued that an embryo is "potentially" a human being, therefore
"human
>life."
> The same "potential" could be claimed for an egg or sperm
or a
>"gleam in the eye." It's literature, or poetry, and all fine, but
it's
>not science. It makes no more sense to claim this for a new embryo,
than
>to say a woman's egg is a "baby;" or that a sperm is a "human
life."
The
>only difference is that intercourse (or another method) fertilized
the
>egg, making it an "embryo." This is the scientific definition of
that
>level of life.
> That's why science called it an embryo, not a baby: Because
it
>is still scientifically *different* from a sentient, independent
human
>being. That is, until the religious right browbeat the defining of
>scientific terms into law along its own biases.
> Hypocrisy enters the fray when we hear Bush and others say,
>"it's wrong to kill one innocent human being even if to save others
from
>an evil disease." This, from the people who tell us we must accept
>"collateral killing" of innocent people in the greater good of
stopping
>evil.
> The issue to re-fight now is again for Separation of
Church
and
>State, of Church and public, of Church and Science.
> It's one thing to resist cloning human beings (or placing a
>cloned embryo into a womb). This is not proposed.
> The whole procedure takes place using one's own genetic
>material, altered and returned, to heal a sick organ, spine, etc.,
and
>should be a right of "choice" in the control of one's own body.
> The only "ethic" here lies in the power struggle of zealots
>further dictating to the state and to science.
>Bob Fink
>
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barb Rexroat
Grants and Contracts Administrator
Comptroller's Office
Illinois State University
ph 309-438-5694 fax 309-438-8245
[log in to unmask]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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