Concepts the group may have yet to embrace:

o  Youthful exuberance.  God bless it!  We need more
and not the stodgy old fogeys we rued in our youth and
are fast becoming.

o  Disguised flattery.  Who better to ask about a
thesis topic than this very audience, most all of
which had to undergo the thesis process at least once
if not many times over judging from the pedigrees
displayed.  It's the old idea of going to the elders,
the experts, the wise ones for advice.  Only the wise
ones are appearing not quite so, and the elders appear
to be acting, in some respects, as curmudgeons.

o  A desire to be part of the group by announcing
one's needs and ambitions and doing it in the form of
asking for help.

Not everyone of us was all that wise when we were in
college.  We may have gotten there (in some fashion)
through age, experience, and the old hard knocks
concept.  Has it been THAT long ago that we've
forgotten what it's like?

And today's youth have something we could only wish we
had--the internet--as a vehicle of connecting with a
marvelous conglomeration of potential peers.

While I personally take exception to jumping into the
middle of the conversation and saying I need a job,
without lurking and studying what goes here and what
has gone before--comes across as pretty pushy and just
using the group rather than embracing it, but I know
there are others here who find no fault with that--I
don't see anything wrong with a college student going
to the well of knowledge and hoping to draw up a
fountain of information.

Perhaps the approach was a tad naive, maybe the style
is different than one would otherwise hope for, but
this list's castigation of one another is just kind of
giving my breakfast a hard time in settling.  I don't
like it when my tummy gurgles as a result of
dissension.

I don't recall the name of the original requestor.
I'm not going to look the person up.  I'm just going
to say--on behalf of myself--that I'm sorry we are
being less than kind.

Perhaps there's another subtle lesson here you can
pick up on--well, actually, two.

1.  Framing is everything.  Learn to carefully frame
your request in the future for the audience at hand.
This is definitely (and blissfully on many days,
though perhaps not today) a WONDERFUL crowd of very
intelligent and capable, but incredibly busy people.
When in Rome . . . hace como los Romanos.

2.  Remember this lesson, and please rise above it
after we old crusties are gone so that it isn't
repeated to subsequent generations.

Welcome aboard, Dear Heart.  You've come to a great
place from which you can learn--and perhaps, by your
exuberance, teach!

--- Lee Appleyard <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Make a possible list of subjects for a
> thesis/dissertation? Surely, you must
> be joking. Let's get a grip here, folks, it's not as
> if you are in your
> first year of university and are a
> wet-behind-the-ears, naive freshman being
> asked to write a major paper on which you know
> nothing.
>
> I'm a former science educator who, to be perfectly
> honest, is appalled at
> the lack of initiative being shown by some of the
> graduate students of this
> list and by many students in general. I too had to
> write a thesis (with a
> one year long research project and a formal oral
> presentation to boot
> coupled with that thesis) as part of my degree
> qualifications. My advisor
> was there to do just that: advise me, not hand me a
> list of research topics
> on a silver platter. I've been in the teaching
> profession for 14 years, and
> all too many times, I have seen or heard of students
> like several of those
> here, wanting to have the ideas planted in their
> heads. What ever happened
> to the initiative of doing the work yourself? Is
> there no longer any
> creativity among students? I have seen way too much
> of the attitude that the
> world owes people everything, but we need not do
> anything in return. Surely,
> if you have been at university for four + years, you
> already know what
> topics interest you. It's all so very simply, gang,
> you choose a
> dissertation topic that interests you. No ideas?
> Then all is in a sad state
> of affairs. I can see if you already have your topic
> and would like to
> bounce some ideas around, that's what brainstorming
> is all about. It is NOT
> about writing to ask for topic ideas or suggesting
> that a list be made
> available to you. Whether or not you're aware, your
> colleges and
> universities keep theses and disserations on file
> and made avaible to
> students such as yourselves. They're at your
> libraries and within your
> departments. You make your start there to see what
> has already been done.
> Sit down with a notepad and pen, or ok, your
> computer, and make a list of
> what interests you within your discipline. Check out
> the materials at your
> library to make certain there is enough information
> to insure that you can
> in fact carry out your study. Talk with your
> advsior, who will certainly be
> able to tell you if your idea holds any water. Yes,
> meeting with advisors
> can be difficult to schedule, but you have to
> remember, they're people too
> and have a heavy load of lectures as well as
> meetings with you. But don't
> tell me that they're unwilling to give you the
> advice you seek. Don't expect
> them to post a list of research topics on their
> doors.
>
> So, at the risk of offending a number of people -
> and I'm sure this
> undoubtedly will - stop your incessant moaning and
> get off your backsides
> and get your work done. Stop this ridiculous request
> for help as you call
> it - it's nothing but a cop out! Ask us what we
> think. Bounce your ideas
> around, and we will be more than happy to help. But,
> don't expect us to TELL
> you what to write. Find what stuff turns you on and
> NOT what you think we
> want to read. There's nothing more sad than
> targeting to what you think
> others want to hear or read, or you do like enjoy
> being conformists? Stop
> jumping on the bandwagon and do your own thing. Are
> you a mover and a shaker
> or a mere follower of the pack?
>
> Lee Appleyard
> [log in to unmask]
>
> > I can understand what jennifer is going throw. I
> have a degree in
> > Anthropology and the most difficult part of doing
> my final work, was not
> > doing the research itself, but choosing the
> subject. And unfortunately my
> > teacher wasn't very helpful. Sometimes experienced
> teachers don't
> understand
> > that if we are their students that mean that we
> don't have the experience
> > they have and we often feel lost. Giving a
> hand/support is not doing our
> > work.
> >
> > You pass several years of your life studying the
> big subjects of your
> > degree, normally in a generalist way and then you
> are asked to choose a
> very
> > small limited subject from all that. Obviously you
> do not know were to
> > start. Well, it might be helpful if someone could
> make a list of possible
> > subjects. But even that is not enough.
> >
> > I think it won't be a bad idea if you think about
> the places where you
> would
> > like to work after finishing you degree (That will
> guarantee that it's a
> > subject that you like). What could be useful for
> them? Is there any
> research
> > that you can do that would improve that
> institution? My advice is, after
> > thinking about this, go and speak with them.
> Expose your ideas and who
> knows
> > if that isn't the opportunity to find a future
> job?
> >
> > I wish you all the luck
> >
> > Ana Teresa da Conceicao
> > Portugal
> >
> >
> > >From: Aaron Marcavitch <[log in to unmask]>
> > >Reply-To: Museum discussion list
> <[log in to unmask]>
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Re: Thesis Topic
> > >Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 10:31:43 -0700
> > >
> > >Way to go Amy.  I love the discussion on this
> list and
> > >it has helped a great deal.  (I will be
> contacting a
> > >few people soon about my own research and a
> possible
> > >internship, just because of suggestions I had
> gotten
> > >on this list.)
> > >
> > >But, there is no need, and I have seen it on WAY
> too
> > >many other lists, to tell someone to go bugger
> off
> > >when they ask for a few ideas. Our ideas may be
> crap
> > >but at least it gets the juices flowing.  These
> > >people, like Jennifer, are not asking for you to
> > >outline the six books they should read on this
> topic
> > >and then write a paragraph for her, but they are
> > >asking you--as the EXPERTS in the field--where to
> go
> > >to start the process.  All too often advisors are
> > >difficult to consult with.  Why not ask the group
> of
> > >people, who collectively have a knowledge better
> than
> > >a library, about the next steps to take.  I dont
> > >expect Jennifer is writing her paper from our
> > >suggestions.  Instead she hears about a topic
> "NAGPRA
> > >policy and musuems" and goes off to find out
> about all
> > >the books on NAGPRA. Suddenly she is vaulted to a
> > >discussion on museums and native americans and
> her
> > >thesis topic is only tangently associated with
> what we
> > >discussed.
> > >
> > >Us folks in the Masters programs are intellegent
> > >people.  We aren't asking for the world from you.
>  We
> > >are asking for a bit of help.  My last job was
> found
> > >through a discussion group like this one.  I put
> out
> > >my name, said HI! and asked if anyone knew of any
> > >jobs.  I had looked at all the other listings.
> Most
> > >of them said "masters and 5 years required" when
> I had
> > >a bachelors and SQUAT for experience beyond an
> > >internship.  But on that list someone said "well
> we
> > >are looking for a program assistant, would you be
> > >interested" and suddenly I am in the best job of
> my
> > >life.  They knew because they found me online,
> that I
> > >knew how computers work.  That meant they could
> ask me
> > >computer questions, something they were dying to
> know.
> > >
> > >Instead what those of you who push us away are
> doing
> > >is saying "leave us alone, go find your own job,
> but
> > >not mine" or "my ideas are my own, not yours, so
> go
> > >find someone else to bug"  I can get that kind of
> > >treatment in my own library or bookstore.
> Instead I
> > >hope to come here in search of people who helped
> me
> > >find places like the Pink Palace in Memphis or
> > >Cheekwood in Nashville, places that will
> (hopefully)
> > >someday lead me in directions I need to go with
> course
> > >work.
> > >
> > >Dont get too full of yourselves by thinking that
> you
> > >are the first person we come to.  Far from it
> often
> > >times.
> > >
> > >Thank for listening, I hope I dont alienate my
> future
> > >boss, and please remember we are just trying to
> make
> > >it in the same world you are.
> > >
> > >Aaron
> > >
> > >=====
> > >Aaron Marcavitch
> > >www.aaronmarcavitch.com
> > >
> > >(current) M.A. in Public History
> > >Middle Tennessee State University
> > >


=====
Indigo Nights
[log in to unmask]


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